R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 09-19-2017, 02:30 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: DesertRat
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Rear - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Front - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
DISCONTINUED 1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!


If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!

Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:
Pan Car Front Suspension Tuning:
DISCLAIMER : The following tuning advice was written based on the tuning experience of the author and may not hold true for all cars, drivers, or surfaces. In the end the best tuning advice is to experiment and make changes one at a time so you can track your changes and find the car balance that works best for your driving style. One real world test is worth a million ‘expert’ opinions.

Front End Type:

All popular modern pan car front suspensions are very similar, with a few exceptions such as Speedmerchant New School but most of the info in this wiki applies to them as well. For the most part, they consist of a rigid bottom arm, an upper A-arm, and a kingpin with a spring. There are different flavors of this general design, such as the CRC Dynamic Strut that uses a threaded kingpin and upper pivot ball instead of the Associated style that uses a kingpin that goes through the entire steering knuckle assembly, but their operation is the same with the rigid lower arm and the upper arm controlling the arc of movement as the suspension is compressed.

Assembly:

More so than in almost any other part of the car, the front suspension of your 1/12 car must move absolutely free. Reamers and hobby knives are important here, as any binding will cause the car to corner unpredictably. A little play in the suspension is a good thing, and racers will often find that ‘worn in’ suspension pieces function a little better than new.

Springs:

Besides tires, spring rate is the most important part of deciding how your car will handle through corners, but are somewhat complicated. As a general rule of thumb, a very hard front spring will have somewhat less steering grip than a softer spring with the same suspension setup and tires, but not as much as in other classes such as touring or offroad. On carpet, springs of different tension can be used to tune how your car will maintain or lose energy through corners with the following general rule of thumb:

Hard Spring (0.55mm or harder): Less overall steering, quick reaction to driver input, less on power steering, harder turn-in with potentially lazy mid-corner and exit.

Soft Spring (.45mm): More overall steering especially at low speed, slightly slower reaction to driver input, more on-power steering, less aggressive turn-in but can ‘hook’ and give better mid-corner and exit.

It is worth noting that front springs from different suppliers are often very different, in both height, wire thickness, and coils for a given spring height meaning that a “medium” spring from one manufacturer may be the “hard” spring for another. To make accurate changes you may want to use one spring maker and stick with their line.

Another aspect to pan car springs is that they can get “blown out” and collapse, no longer as stiff or as tall as they were. These should be replaced with fresh springs to ensure consistent handling.

Dampening:

This is generally a minor adjustment, but adding dampening tube fluid to the front kingpins of a 1/12 car can give it a little more initial steering. Often unusual compounds see use here, such as Losi Smart Diff Grease or Associated Green Slime being a popular front kingpin lube.

Caster and Reactive Caster:

Caster is the angle of the kingpin, almost always angling back to the rear of the car, with a typical range from 0-10 degrees. Increasing your caster will typically result in less turn-in but a little more control, more steering exiting the corner, and somewhat increased straight-line stability with less tendency to wander because a wheel running caster will tend to straighten itself. Less caster will usually give you more off-power steering, but often with correspondingly less on-power when accelerating out of the corner.

Running reactive caster attempts to use both of these aspects to increase overall steering: when the car loads up on the outside front tire, the caster angle decreases, increasing the front end ‘hook’ as you enter the corner and then giving you the high caster on-power steering as you exit and weight is transferred off the front end. More reactive caster means more overall steering, but can mean you may have to adjust your driving style to drive more ‘ahead of the car’, needing to predict where the front end will grip.

As grip increases, less reactive caster is the normal tuning change made to keep the front end of the car from gripping too hard and oversteering and prevent traction roll. Static caster adjustments are still used to change the cars on power / off power steering balance.

Reactive Camber and Front Roll Center:

Reactive camber or camber gain is how much camber is added the front wheels as the suspension compresses. This can be increased or decreased by changing the angle and length of the top arm. Short, angled arm = more. Long, flat arm = less. More reactive camber will typically cause the car to “roll up” on the outer front wheel, transferring more weight in a turn and give more steering up to the point at which the tire is overloaded. This is generally more front grip and weight transfer than wanted on carpet, and as a result most cars run a flatter longer front arm.

Roll Center is the point on which the car will twist laterally or ‘roll’ during cornering. This can be raised or lowered by changing the angle and length of the top arm, with a short angled arm raising is slightly and a long flat arm lowering it. From what I have calculated most modern 1/12 cars meant for carpet have a roll center somewhere around the height of the chassis plate or just below it, but due to the lower arms being rigid and flat the roll center cannot be under the bottom of the tires like it often is on a touring car.
These two are inexorably linked in pan cars. Top arm length can be changed by the top arm mount in or out using shims or a CRC Long Arm kit, but is generally a minor tuning choice. Tuning of roll center with shims is usually a minor tuning choice in a pan car with a rigid bottom arm due to how the car cannot gain extra mechanical advantage on the lower arm as you can in a touring car, while reactive camber can be a significant driver of the car’s performance. In a modern car running on carpet the kit setup is usually perfectly fine.

Front End Alignment:

Static camber is the angle of your front wheels at rest, typically somewhere from 0 to 1.5 degrees on a pan car depending on surface, tire choice, and other factors, but a good starting point is usually somewhere around 0.5 degrees. More camber will typically give more steering, but many racers use static camber to ensure that their tires wear flat even if that means not having exactly equal camber on both sides of the car. This is adjusted by threading in and out the upper turnbuckle or pivot ball.

It is also worth noting that when running on high grip the flex and deformation of your chassis, suspension parts, and front wheels can become significant and cause uneven front tire wear. Some troubleshooting of the right combination of static camber, camber gain, caster, and tire/rim choice may be necessary to ensure even front tire wear.

Toe-In:

The front toe is one of the more easily adjusted aspects of the car and can have a significant effect on the attitude of the car due to it being a quick way to moderately adjust Ackerman without making significant other changes. With nothing else being adjusted, going from zero toe to toe-in will give a car a harder turn-in and will tend to scrub speed with the front end as opposed to using drag brake. This can be necessary when racing in Super Stock or higher power classes and will allow you to drive more aggressively, and can help the car track straighter under power. Toe-out will tend to make the car coast more through corners due to reducing the steering angle of the outer front tire. If a car has too much off-power steering but is otherwise stable, adding toe-out can calm the car but may the car to wander on the straights especially if the front end setup is very soft.

Ackerman:

Ackerman is the difference in steering angle between the two front tires during a turn. It is the result of how during a turn the inside of the car experiences a tighter circle and needs correspondingly more steering angle, but is also an important tuning tool. More Ackerman means having more inside wheel steering angle relative to the outer wheel, less means that the difference in steering angle is smaller.

To add or remove Ackerman, using a servo horn that spaces the links further apart (such as a Kimbrough Small Servo Saver, the outer holes on a Tamiya or Xray servo saver) will have more Ackerman than a servo that puts the links close together (Kimbrough Medium inner holes, Tamiya or Xray inner holes.) The rule of thumb is that a servo that puts the ball studs close together but spaced away from the servo horn will have less Ackerman than one that spaces them far apart and close to the servo horn. Ackerman changes will have the same effect as changing toe with more Ackerman being effectively toeing the wheels out and less toeing them in, but will not affect the straight-line attitude of the car.
SOMEONE ELSE DO THE REAR TUNING SECTION! AND A TROUBLESHOOTING TREE! FEEL FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHANGES!

Print Wikipost

Like Tree62Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-20-2009, 07:31 AM   #31036
Tech Elite
 
Grenade10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 4,673
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhock View Post
I run 44-46mm tires. Ive been messing with the 189 with my labtop but when i run boost at max it doesnt seem any faster. Our track has alot of turns in it so there isnt much straight speed. I am going again today to keep messing with my setup. Anymore suggestions? Not sure if this helps, but the track is Debbiesrcworld in Chesapeake, VA indoor carpet.
When I started with 189, I dropped 10 teeth with full boost. I would take all the timing out of the motor. This will give you better acceleration out of the corners. Then start upping the pinion size for the straight / temp. Keet the motor under 160, or you'll see some drop off at the end of an 8 min race.

What motor brand are you running? 17.5? Lap times?
__________________
Darkside, Sweep, BSR, Fantom, IGT Hobbies and IGT8
Byrons Fuel, ProtoForm Bodies & Futaba Radio Gear by Choice
Founding Member of CORRC .... 5280raceway
www.darksidems.com www.igthobbies.com www.IGT8.com
Grenade10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 07:53 AM   #31037
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 1,052
Trader Rating: 16 (94%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhock View Post
I run 44-46mm tires. Ive been messing with the 189 with my labtop but when i run boost at max it doesnt seem any faster. Our track has alot of turns in it so there isnt much straight speed. I am going again today to keep messing with my setup. Anymore suggestions? Not sure if this helps, but the track is Debbiesrcworld in Chesapeake, VA indoor carpet.
Here you go: (81-Tooth Spur)

46mm - 37T Pinion = 65.98 Rollout
46mm - 36T Pinion = 64.20 Rollout
46mm - 35T Pinion = 62.41 Rollout

45mm - 38T Pinion = 66.29 Rollout
45mm - 37T Pinion = 64.54 Rollout
45mm - 36T Pinion = 62.80 Rollout

44mm - 39T Pinion = 66.52 Rollout
44mm - 38T Pinion = 64.82 Rollout
44mm - 37T Pinion = 63.11 Rollout

There are obviously more variables to this, but the ratio's are good starting points. Secondly, I would follow the gearing others at your track run with similar motors and ESC's.
__________________
KSN
kn7671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:14 AM   #31038
Tech Elite
 
theisgroup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,191
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhock View Post
I run 44-46mm tires. Ive been messing with the 189 with my labtop but when i run boost at max it doesnt seem any faster. Our track has alot of turns in it so there isnt much straight speed. I am going again today to keep messing with my setup. Anymore suggestions? Not sure if this helps, but the track is Debbiesrcworld in Chesapeake, VA indoor carpet.
debbies is pretty small. I was there and ran the previous layout. Had a speed passion 10.5 with an lrp sphere and was rolled out around 61mm. i had good speed in the infield and on the straights. most of the guys will remember me. car ran pretty good. I had the wrong tires. was running magenta fronts and pink rear. I think if I had some double ping rears, the car would have been untouchable.


lmk if you need any help. they guys at debbies are great, trying to figure out how I can get my company to pay for another trip
__________________
yang lai

Team Tamale | Team Tekin | RCAmerica | Speedmerchant | Speedzone RC | EA Motorsports | Ko Propo USA | eXpress Motorsports | Parma/PSE
theisgroup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:20 AM   #31039
CFR
Tech Regular
 
CFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 327
Default

anyone got a link to all suitable servo's for 12th cars

one's I've listed so far are

Futaba S9602
Futaba S9650
Savox SH-1350
KO Propo PDS-947
Sanwa SRM-141HRZ
Sanwa SRM-141AL

looking for the specs also

list your servo and specs please
CFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:53 AM   #31040
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,819
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

I'll be at debbies tomorrow. I'm still running brushed though so not sure how much help I'll be. I know whatever set-up Mike Anderson has been using is ballistic (RS with tekin 10.5).

As for tires, magenta/pink is kicking ass for me.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:58 AM   #31041
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary, AB CANADA
Posts: 833
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Hi all,

I'm hoping I can get a little input and insight from the more experience 1/12th drivers out there. I just started 1/12th this season (indoor carpet) with a 12R5 and I've been having a blast but I'm struggling to get my car to carry as much corner speed as some of the others I race against.

I've been running the kit setup typically with Yellow rears and Lilac fronts and while the car is fairly easy to drive it seems to push a bit in the corners. It's ballistically fast on the straights with a 17.5 BL and Tekin RS Pro ESC.

Is it typically better to have the car really hooked up with softer tires that allow the car to "carve" harder through the turns or is it better to run harder tires and let the car sort of slide around the corners. I understand the physical changes that changing springs/caster/camber etc. make on the car, I'm just unsure of under what circumstances I'd want to make a change to get the car to carry the most speed through corners.

Sorry for the long-winded post but any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Mike
__________________
Mike
Hyper_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 08:59 AM   #31042
CFR
Tech Regular
 
CFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
I know whatever set-up Mike Anderson has been using is ballistic (RS with tekin 10.5).
get those settings and post them here please, it's what I'm running
CFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:04 AM   #31043
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,819
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

I don't know his settings but I suspect it's 189 with max boost, minimum physical timing. All you need is to figure out the rollout and rock and roll.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:20 AM   #31044
Tech Elite
 
Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 360 Speedway
Posts: 2,251
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Hyper Mike,

IT's going to depend on the type of push... if it's pushing in the first part of the corner (off power) you can get a little more steering there by making the shock a bit longer (a bit more pod droop) IF the push is mid corner, you can gain some on power steering by raising the front attachment point of the shock a bit.

If it's a double-steer kind of push (starts to steer in, then lets go) try a little heavier oil in the side shock.

IF you feel the need for a little more steering everywhere, I'd go with the next step firmer side springs.

The 12R5 comes with .020 front springs, I wouldn't go lighter than that under most circumstances.

You might also consider trying a set of grey low or orange rear tires. THEse are the same as Yellows, but with a thin outer ring of grey near the sidewall. THese will let the car rotate a bit more than the yellows when the car is in the corners. Going to greay rears will let the car rotate even more.

The 12R5 comes with the gold 12lb spring standard... most of us are running the 14lb red spring on the center shock of our cars (link cars) Changing from the gold to red will let the car rotate a bit better everywhere... that could be all the change you need...

OF course, the simplest solution might just be to treat a wider portion of the front tire before the run... if you're saucing the inner third of the tire, try saucing the inner half... IF I feel I need to sauce more than half the front tire, I usually look elsewhere for the solution though.

I think my first move would be to try the red spring on the shock... keeping everything else the same for now. If I still wanted more overall steering, I'd go one step up on the side springs.

Out of curiosity, what body are you running? It can make a big difference in the balance of the car...
__________________
MARSHAL!!
Trips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:40 AM   #31045
Tech Master
 
jkirkwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,231
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

For the guys cleaning the tires with lighter fluid between rounds is it because the tires are getting a build up on them? I typically don't clean my tires during the day and my car get's faster and faster all day long, but the two tracks I frequent their isn't any build up on the tires. Thanks.
jkirkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:51 AM   #31046
Tech Elite
 
Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 360 Speedway
Posts: 2,251
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

I don't always clean, but sometimes the car comes off the track with a diorty buildup on the tires, it almost looks "salt and peppery". When I see that I clean it up with the lighter fluid. Also I'll clean them if the tires come off the track feeling at all tacky or gummy.

Without the cleaning, the grip increases from one run to the next. If there is plenty of grip in the track already, that can slow your lap times down... if I feel I have plenty of grip, I clean. If I feel like a little more grip could help, I don't...
__________________
MARSHAL!!
Trips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 10:23 AM   #31047
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary, AB CANADA
Posts: 833
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Trips...thank you very much for the reply.

I would characterize it as a general lack of steering everywhere through the corners...I just don't seem to be able to enter or drive through the corner as quickly as I'd like/as others seem to be able to do.

I'm already saucing the fronts at 1/2 to 3/4 which was part of the reason I was thinking I should look elsewhere for a solution.

I had tried Jaco grey rears but found that I just couldn't get the forward drive I was looking for that I get with the softer tires. Who makes the Orange tires you referenced?

I think I'll try your suggestion of going to the red center spring and see how that feels and maybe try the next step harder side springs if I need more.

Is there a point at which having too much turn-in and overall steering would actually make the car slower or should I be looking for as much steering as I can get while still having the car driveable?

BTW I'm using a Black Art (CRC) closed cockpit body and it seems to work pretty well.

Thanks again,

Mike
__________________
Mike
Hyper_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 10:42 AM   #31048
Tech Elite
 
Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 360 Speedway
Posts: 2,251
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Mike View Post
Trips...thank you very much for the reply.

I would characterize it as a general lack of steering everywhere through the corners...I just don't seem to be able to enter or drive through the corner as quickly as I'd like/as others seem to be able to do.

I'm already saucing the fronts at 1/2 to 3/4 which was part of the reason I was thinking I should look elsewhere for a solution.
For the general overall lack of steering I think you'll like the red spring better. IT should give you some more everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Mike View Post
I had tried Jaco grey rears but found that I just couldn't get the forward drive I was looking for that I get with the softer tires. Who makes the Orange tires you referenced?
Jaco makes the oranges, CRC makes the "grey-low". IF you didn't like the loss of forward drive with greys, you probably won't like the oranges either. I noticed a loss of forward bite with them compared to yellows, it made the car pretty sketchy off the corners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Mike View Post
I think I'll try your suggestion of going to the red center spring and see how that feels and maybe try the next step harder side springs if I need more.
That's where I'd start... the slightly longer shock and raising the front of the shock suggestions are subtle changes... I don't think either would be right to get more steering everywhere... I use them more to fine tune entry and exit steering balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Mike View Post
Is there a point at which having too much turn-in and overall steering would actually make the car slower or should I be looking for as much steering as I can get while still having the car driveable?
There's definitely a point where you can have too much steering... when you get there the car will feel slow in the corners... like having the brakes on while turning... no slide, but slow. Slow off the corners too. IF the car feels like it has good rip exiting corners, you're probably not at the point of too much grip in front... but when you DO get there it's not immediately apparent that that's what's happening... it's like your lap times just fall off and you're not sure why...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper_Mike View Post
BTW I'm using a Black Art (CRC) closed cockpit body and it seems to work pretty well.
I'm running that body too. Great balance, easy to drive. The Parma Speed8 lightweight might feel like it has a touch more steering than the Black Art, but my laps are a little faster with the Black Art.
__________________
MARSHAL!!
Trips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 11:32 AM   #31049
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary, AB CANADA
Posts: 833
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Trips,

Thanks again for all your help...I really appreciate it.

I'm going to try the red spring (and if necessary a few other things) tonight at our club race and hopefully I can dial it in!

Cheers,
Mike
__________________
Mike
Hyper_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 01:50 PM   #31050
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary, AB CANADA
Posts: 833
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Sorry guys...one more (dumb) question for Trips or anyone else!

When would you choose to go to a softer front tire or harder rear tire to gain more turning versus making changes to springs/shock position/etc?

For example I could change from Lilac front tires to Dbl Pink front tires OR I could change to the stiffer shock spring to get more turning. When would you choose to do one over the other? Is there any difference?

Sorry to be a pain!

Cheers,
Mike
__________________
Mike
Hyper_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 04:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 01:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 07:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 08:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (2 members and 4 guests)
DesertRat, Ophidian
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:27 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net