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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 02-24-2009, 06:56 AM   #30886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
I pretty much only adjust droop at the rear of a 12th car to change the on power steering or to settle the car down on a high bite track.

There are a few things that are actually happening when you accelerate to the travel limit of the shock. My personal opinion on why the increased droop increased on power steering is that it raises the rear ride height and rollcenter. I think that the shock acting like a 3rd link (on a real car) is less of a contributor to the steering.

If you draw every thing out, droop shouldn't increase turn in but it does. Again, this is probably because of the higher ride height and rollcenter. The rear end will get held up for a little bit off power because of the damping in the shock. Eventually, it goes back to normal ride height and you don't have any extra steering in the middle.
so you are saying more rear droop produces more on power steering? i thought it helps off power steering. hmmm
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:28 AM   #30887
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
so you are saying more rear droop produces more on power steering? i thought it helps off power steering. hmmm
Yup, that's pretty much what I find. The shock gets pulled longer on acceleration so the length matters. It gets pushed shorter on deceleration so the shock oil and spring matter more there.

If I need off power steering, I change the chassis rake first (raise the rear compared to the front) then I change spring, oil, or shock position.

Any time I change from my baseline set-up it's after I try different fronts.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:18 AM   #30888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
Yea, you're in a tough spot. I might add, don't you feel that a lipo pack for a "theoretical class" won't be obsoleted by then as well? Right now only SMC has a foot in the door. Announce it as a class, you'll see 5-10 new versions.... and motors and new electronics to match the low voltage demands. A booster is a bandaid. Somebody will fix that with newer better electronics in the speedo.
Well it's not really a theoretical class since Jody Flipse has run the single cell and a 13.5 with us and showed us it's not much faster or slower than a good stock set up. The track owner is allowing us to run the lipo set up so I'm going to try it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:20 AM   #30889
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Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
I have raced my 12th on carpet with a 1 cell LiPo and a 13.5 for 8+ minutes using two different ESC's and neither "needed" a booster or receiver pack. Obviously the word "needed" is a personal descriptor. Some feel the servos go soft and/or the powerband goes flat after several minutes without a receiver pack or booster. The two esc's I ran were the original 4 cell GTB, and a Spedpassion LPF 1.1.
Well thats very interesting....Maybe I will just try it once and see how it goes then.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:39 AM   #30890
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I did some searching and didn't find the answer in regards to pod angle and the affects it has on steering and rear grip. I did find that angling the t-plate down towards the front gives more steering overall. However I'm wondering what the affects of pod angle has on steering on a linked car. It is the same as a t-plate car?

Last edited by jkirkwood; 02-24-2009 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:39 AM   #30891
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Originally Posted by Dasmopar View Post
Well it's not really a theoretical class since Jody Flipse has run the single cell and a 13.5 with us and showed us it's not much faster or slower than a good stock set up. The track owner is allowing us to run the lipo set up so I'm going to try it.
You dont even run stock class. So now what are you going to do?

I hear the single cell and a 8.5 is the ticket.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:42 AM   #30892
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Originally Posted by Stewped View Post
You dont even run stock class. So now what are you going to do?

I hear the single cell and a 8.5 is the ticket.

Hey you don't worry about what I'm doing. You worry about what your gonna have to do to keep up!!
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:46 AM   #30893
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Single cell 4.5 is the ticket for mod. Maybe even a 3.5 if you drive it a little.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:17 AM   #30894
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Originally Posted by Dasmopar View Post
Sorry to jump off the droop topic but whats the consensus on lipos? I'm thinking about ordering smc single cell lipo but what do I need to run the radio gear? Voltage booster or a rec. pack?

Roar going to get on the lipo bang wagon for next season?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
I doubt it. Folks are still in the "dabble" stage. Until you have a few heats of that kind of thing going on at a LOT of clubs they're not going to bother with it.
There is a big push here in the east to get ROAR to recognize single cell lipo in 1/12. How do I know? Who do you think is getting pushed?
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:30 AM   #30895
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Hey you don't worry about what I'm doing. You worry about what your gonna have to do to keep up!!

2 cell 10.5 should do it for me. Just need to figure out the infield.:
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:37 AM   #30896
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
There is a big push here in the east to get ROAR to recognize single cell lipo in 1/12. How do I know? Who do you think is getting pushed?
Until there is more than a single manufacture of Single Cell, I don't see how ROAR can condone a class with a single supplier of a key component.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:47 AM   #30897
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
Until there is more than a single manufacture of Single Cell, I don't see how ROAR can condone a class with a single supplier of a key component.
I somewhat agree but if ROAR makes it a class I'm sure many others would build them.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:02 PM   #30898
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Here's a clip pasted from my MS3 instructions (which is a t-bar car):

Shock Angle/Pod Droop: Raising or lowering the nose of the center shock will affect
the on power steering. Raising the nose will increase on power steering. This is done
by adding up to 3mm of shims to the stock Asc Shock/Ant Mount. Lowering the nose of
the shock will reduce steering on power. This change will alter the rear pod droop which
also affects on power steering. 0 is more on power steering while -2 is less. Try various
combinations during testing. These can be valuable subtle adjustments once qualifying
starts. Set the car up with no shims under the nose ball stud and with -1mm pod droop.


I feel that raising the nose of the shock and pod droop have more of an effect with "on-power" steering then "off".
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Old 02-24-2009, 02:34 PM   #30899
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
Until there is more than a single manufacture of Single Cell, I don't see how ROAR can condone a class with a single supplier of a key component.
Er... when BL was proposed and accepted, there was a Novak product and nothing else. Once Rules came out, others jumped on the bandwagon pretty fast. Here in the UK, we have done just that - 1S LiPo is available to race, and there is only the SMC product currently available. Create the market, and others will come - so we have, and we await the stampede!

All this discussion about what does what on or off power, etc, etc,... Do not confuse what happens in any other class with what happens in a pan car. 'Normal' Rules are suspended with Pan Cars because you are dealing with the only racing chassis in the World that has a joint in the middle!

There is no other racing class of any kind that has this feature, and it is one reason that those coming to Pan Cars get lost - Rules applying to TC, Off Road, Oval and Drag cars that we have already learnt do not ALL apply!

Whatever you might think is supposed to happen, just go to Richard Chang's guide. The reason it is so popular is because what he describes is what is ACTUALLY happening!
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Old 02-24-2009, 02:57 PM   #30900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
Whatever you might think is supposed to happen, just go to Richard Chang's guide.
Exactly.

Thanks PF!

1/12TH CHASSIS SETUP TIPS by Richard Chang

Last updated: 10/17/2006

Download the PDF version of this here >
http://richardchang.com/hobby/rctips_112_summary.pdf

FRONT WIDTH
NARROW - more agressive steering

WIDER - less agressive

FRONT SPRINGS
No preload for .020 springs. E-clip preload for .018 springs.

SOFTER - more steering but may dig or square up too hard. Softer springs have higher chance of collapsing.

STIFFER - less steering. Do not allow the front to dive as easily. Smoothes car out on corner entry

CAMBER
MORE NEGATIVE - decrease low speed and increase high speed steering. Outside tire will tend to flatten out at higher cornering speeds and have better contact patch. 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 deg.

CASTER
LESS - easier the car will turn. But, lose straight line stability and lose exit speed (car will not cut into a turn as well).

REACTIVE - reduces caster at turn in and increases it at exit. However, can cause more tire scrub in a turn and slow you down if not set up properly.

TOE
OUT - decrease straight line stability and can make car wander but it enhances turn-in, especially on initial "cut"

IN - increase straight line stability but make it more difficult to turn

SIDE SPRINGS
If car feels edgy, a 1/4-turn of preload can settle car down.
If car does not center up quick enough thru twisties, use stiffer spring.

SOFTER - more side bite for rear end but will be lazier transitioning back to center

STIFFER - less side bite. Faster transition, but can feel edgy.

SIDE TUBES / DAMPER DISK LUBE
Typically 10,000 ofna lube or Losi med hydra fluid

THICKER - increases front traction - adds steering. Slows transition and softens steering in fast sweepers. If car is double steering on power use thicker oil to slow reaction time but if go to far you can see inside rear tire lift in tight corners.

THINNER - decreases front traction - decreases steering.

CENTER SHOCK
Spring/Oil combo have greater effect on net rear traction - the softer the spring/oil combo the more rear grip.


POSITION
FLATTER - more on-power steering (to a point)
HIGHER - less on-power steering
SPRING
LIGHTER - more rear traction and better control on bumpy tracks. much off power steering, little on power steering (less spinouts coming out of the corner
STIFFER - less rear traction. much on-power mid-out steering, little off power steering
OIL
Controls the front to rear grip bias.
LIGHER - balance to rear (more rear traction)
HEAVIER - balance to front (more front traction/steering).
Best use a very weak oil with a softer front tire compound, for example a magenta instead of a purple for more overall traction instead of heavy oil and a hard front tire.

REAR POD DROOP
MORE - makes car turn in harder. More hi-speed steering. Handles bumpy tracks better.

LESS or NONE - car smoother into corners

SIDE LINKS (ROLL-CENTER)
RAISE - raises roll center. Will increase steering.

LOWER - lowers roll center. Locks rear end more.

BATTERY POSITION
FORWARD - easier to drive, less steering. Less wt xfer into corners.

BACK - more steering due to increase in wt xfer. Car can feel darty off-power. This coupled with longer shock (rear pod droop) makes car rotate harder into corners by unloading rear tires.

FRONT STEERING KNUCKLES
OFFSET - standard on any pancar (but oval)

INLINE - huge increase in steering response. Car becomes really twitchy. Sometimes used on 10th scale roadcourse pan car.

T-BAR SHIM
UNDER FRONT BALL - adds anti-squat - more initial steering on entry and plants rear mid corner and exit (push)

FRONT TIRES
LESS ROUNDED EDGE - makes car edgy and car want to tip over at high speed cornering situations. Can be advantageous on loose conditions where car has no high-speed bite, tho.

REAR WIDTH
WIDER - More stable, but car will push more

NARROWER - More steering

Typical tuning: front tires, center spring, and front tire-dope

In general: anything that stiffens rear end adds steering
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