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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 02-15-2009, 08:42 PM   #30751
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Default Pro Strut Front End Issues

Hey all.

I have installed the New Gen X Pro Strut Front end on my Bloody Knife and am having some issues.

The Hubs, that hold the wheel shafts and allows for steering is breaking alot. A couple of minor hits and blam the front hub is gone.

Does anyone know of a stonger replacement for the plastic hub? Or a way of making the stock one stronger. I really like the new front end and would rather not have to go back to the associated one..

Thanks
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:25 PM   #30752
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Are you talking about the front steering knuckle? I've had mine loosen up but not break yet...that must be quite a hit.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:51 PM   #30753
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In sedans a 5.5 to 6 foot circle is the sweetspot to get the cars to turn tightly and efficiently. You can make it smaller, but you just scrub speed without gaining much if any steering. It was better to use softer tires, springs etc to get more steering if you needed it. This is circle the same on low, med, and high bite carpet.

I do y'all find this same principal to be true in 12th? It seems 3.5-4 feet is the sweetspot, not matter the level of traction level, for 12th scale.

Also, I am running a 1 cell 13.5 set up in a CRC CK 3.?. The car is lifting the rear inside tire in the tighter corners and diffing out. What would ya'lls first reaction be to fix it? I had my DR turned all the way down and it was still happening. Must have been a 7 foot circle!

low-med grip carpet
Blue center spring
white side springs
12l4 front end
.20 f springs
30 weight center oil in a HB shock
172 rear width
.040 shims on front axle
4 mm RH
46 mm rear prism pinks
44 mm front lilacs

I kinda just threw the car out there in terms of set up as I just wanted \
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:20 AM   #30754
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My first thought would be that you've got too much traction at the rear. I only use pink when traction is really poor on my 19T/10.5 cars...I don't think I've ever gone there with 13.5 or less. You've compounded things by going to a lot less weight at the back as well which causes your front-rear distribution to go off too. I'm headed down this path very soon as well...

Go to a double pink then a grey and see if that gets rid of picking the tire up, THEN start fine-tuning. You should need less "grippy" tires for a similar setup on less weight. If it keeps on being a problem you could even go to black.
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Old 02-16-2009, 01:38 AM   #30755
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Tires are to big, rear is rolling up on the sidewall.

Knock 'em down 3 - 4mm front and back and glue the sidewalls of the fronts. You didn't mention ride height. Keep it low.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:24 AM   #30756
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Hi guys, I thought I'd try to put some pics on here of a car that I have been working on. The first version was fine but I have refined it slightly with a new crossbrace and upper pod plate that uses one damper tube instead of two. I ran the car at our local meeting yesterday it was pretty good in the end. The problem was that we held a national on that carpet a few weeks ago so had the situation of having loads of grip, then no grip and then back to having loads of grip from where the circuit was on the national. So, tricky conditions but I guess it was the same for all. I am now working on a new front end for the car which will have something that no-one else has tried, as of yet! OK guys, tell me what you think ok? Cheers, Chris.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:27 AM   #30757
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OK, sorry if those pics are a bit big, that's the first time I have got them to upload! Cheers.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:41 AM   #30758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V12 View Post
adam lancia
I saw you´re in Germany now. Where is this? Maybe some locals could help you. But there isn´t as much 1/12 scale racing in some areas I think.
I'm in Cologne. I've got a few tracks around that I can go to, I just need to find time to get there! In the mean time, I sit at home and tinker with my stuff....at least I'm doing SOMETHING with my favourite hobby even if it isn't racing.

Quote:
Hard to say really because so much of any change depends on the racing surface. But as a general rule anything that stiffens the rear should add steering, so more often than not I start with changes to the back of the car first. I hope (weather permiting) to try out out my car this comming Fri on asphalt so I'll let you know how it goes. Heck the longer wheelbase may make the car better, I just wont know untill I try it. My gameplan is to start with a generic 1/12 asphalt setup and make changes from there.
Gotcha, thanks!

Thanks for the info Chris, I guess I just have to get it on track and see if the thing will turn or not. If not, I've got an L3 chassis I can bolt the rear end to until I find something suitable to change to if necessary.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:51 AM   #30759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
In sedans a 5.5 to 6 foot circle is the sweetspot to get the cars to turn tightly and efficiently. You can make it smaller, but you just scrub speed without gaining much if any steering. It was better to use softer tires, springs etc to get more steering if you needed it. This is circle the same on low, med, and high bite carpet.

I do y'all find this same principal to be true in 12th? It seems 3.5-4 feet is the sweetspot, not matter the level of traction level, for 12th scale.

Also, I am running a 1 cell 13.5 set up in a CRC CK 3.?. The car is lifting the rear inside tire in the tighter corners and diffing out. What would ya'lls first reaction be to fix it? I had my DR turned all the way down and it was still happening. Must have been a 7 foot circle!

low-med grip carpet
Blue center spring
white side springs
12l4 front end
.20 f springs
30 weight center oil in a HB shock
172 rear width
.040 shims on front axle
4 mm RH
46 mm rear prism pinks
44 mm front lilacs

I kinda just threw the car out there in terms of set up as I just wanted \
I run the crc copper spring on the shock. you didnt mention whats in your damper tubes. try shock oil or 5,000 mixed with a little shock oil. Sounds like there too stiff. Also, Ive tried pinks/lilacs and hated the jerkyness. So far black/gray has been smooth as silk and stuck like glue.

DK
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:35 AM   #30760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
In sedans a 5.5 to 6 foot circle is the sweetspot to get the cars to turn tightly and efficiently.
I do y'all find this same principal to be true in 12th? It seems 3.5-4 feet is the sweetspot, not matter the level of traction level, for 12th scale.

\
Hi Andrew. Couldn't agree with you more on the TC circle. For 1/12 I run 4-5 ft circle. Mod 4-4.5 and stock 4.5-5. I'd pick 4.5 for most applications for either motor. Some guys run smaller bit it's harder to be consistent.

Paul
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:58 AM   #30761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Are you talking about the front steering knuckle? I've had mine loosen up but not break yet...that must be quite a hit.
Here is the part I was talking about



we are not hitting this hard but it is at high speed comming into the lst corner and the edges are Wood that have flat edges not rounded. I am not running a wide enough bumper to push the car off the side before the tire will hit the wall and be pushed back.

One of the racers (whu likes the walls too much) has built an aluminum front bumper. It looks exactly like the Gen X Carbon Bumper that covers the front of the tires but It's about 3x as heavy. Even thought it is mostly air due to the holes drilled into it.

I Will try to get a picture of it the next time here is at a race. But here is the One from CRC that the local guys here hate but it's the same shape as his.


Last edited by jdeadman; 02-16-2009 at 07:01 AM. Reason: bad link
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:06 AM   #30762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman2 View Post
OK, sorry if those pics are a bit big, that's the first time I have got them to upload! Cheers.
I like it. It looks to be a very made car.
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:26 AM   #30763
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Yup that is the steering knuckles...I've taken some hard hits with mine, especially at the Snowbirds and haven't broken them. But catching the corner of a 2X4 breaks a lot of things you wouldn't expect. Some of the CRC guys have been using a 4-40 button head screw instead of the set screw to help keep the axle blocks from getting loose in the knuckle. That might also help with strengthening the plastic. You might also want to try gluing the axle blocks in place as that should help strengthen them as well.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:48 PM   #30764
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Which one have BlackArt web site ?
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:54 PM   #30765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam lancia View Post
Quick question about a slightly obscure car: I was recently gifted a Trinity Black Widow (ASC front end, Trinity damper tube rear end) and I read a little on it but couldn't find anything really specific about the setup. The chassis is about 1/4" longer than my L4 but I'm not sure what changes that requires in order to get it to handle. I've never had a damper tube car either, are there any general guidelines as far as fluid viscosity and how that affects handling? I'm really just looking for some general guidelines as far as a longer chassis is concerned, unless one of you had this little bugger in the past and can remember a generic starting setup for it. I'll be running 19 turn 4 cell. Before you ask about the type of carpet, amount of traction etc I have no idea because I haven't been out to the local tracks here in Germany yet. For tires, I've got the usual suspects: pink, double pink, grey, purple, white but no yellow, lilac newer compounds. I know this is a long shot/tall order so any help is (as always!) greatly appreciated!!!!!
You need the shorter chassis, but I doubt that Trinity still make it. Without that, the car is off the pace! If you can't get one from Trinity, try www.fibre-lyte.co.uk. We had some made by them. Ask for the Black Widow chassis, and if you have any trouble with them identifying it, come back to me via PM and I'll help. Fibrelyte are very good!

Otherwise, the car is very good. I suggest 3000 to 5000wt oil in the side dampers. Also worth trying is the lowered T-bar ball joints from CRC, and they give better rear grip. It's basically a 12L4, and it is very good to drive. HTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Question, I'm still running 19t in my old 12L4. Works so good I hate to change cars but I would like to go brushless. Anyone make a good brushless centered pod to fit it? I know people are putting 10r5 pods on 12r5's but what about an L4?

Or, do brushless motors fit and balance well in a stock pod?
The 12L4 is still very competitive. One of our National drivers is now regularly in the top five having switched from a more modern car. The balanced pod is mostly voodoo. As the whole rear pod is one assembly without any jo.ints or springs, providing the motor is there, or thereabouts, the weight will distribute evenly anyway.

Also, remember that the weight of a BL is mostly to the right anyway, like BR. The windings end about 15mm short of the endbell, and the rotor is inside that. The aforementioned driver uses standard CRC lowered sideplates, and the car is fine. Stick with the standard pod and you'll be fine. HTH
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