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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Rear - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Front - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
DISCONTINUED 1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!


If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!

Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:
Pan Car Front Suspension Tuning:
DISCLAIMER : The following tuning advice was written based on the tuning experience of the author and may not hold true for all cars, drivers, or surfaces. In the end the best tuning advice is to experiment and make changes one at a time so you can track your changes and find the car balance that works best for your driving style. One real world test is worth a million ‘expert’ opinions.

Front End Type:

All popular modern pan car front suspensions are very similar, with a few exceptions such as Speedmerchant New School but most of the info in this wiki applies to them as well. For the most part, they consist of a rigid bottom arm, an upper A-arm, and a kingpin with a spring. There are different flavors of this general design, such as the CRC Dynamic Strut that uses a threaded kingpin and upper pivot ball instead of the Associated style that uses a kingpin that goes through the entire steering knuckle assembly, but their operation is the same with the rigid lower arm and the upper arm controlling the arc of movement as the suspension is compressed.

Assembly:

More so than in almost any other part of the car, the front suspension of your 1/12 car must move absolutely free. Reamers and hobby knives are important here, as any binding will cause the car to corner unpredictably. A little play in the suspension is a good thing, and racers will often find that ‘worn in’ suspension pieces function a little better than new.

Springs:

Besides tires, spring rate is the most important part of deciding how your car will handle through corners, but are somewhat complicated. As a general rule of thumb, a very hard front spring will have somewhat less steering grip than a softer spring with the same suspension setup and tires, but not as much as in other classes such as touring or offroad. On carpet, springs of different tension can be used to tune how your car will maintain or lose energy through corners with the following general rule of thumb:

Hard Spring (0.55mm or harder): Less overall steering, quick reaction to driver input, less on power steering, harder turn-in with potentially lazy mid-corner and exit.

Soft Spring (.45mm): More overall steering especially at low speed, slightly slower reaction to driver input, more on-power steering, less aggressive turn-in but can ‘hook’ and give better mid-corner and exit.

It is worth noting that front springs from different suppliers are often very different, in both height, wire thickness, and coils for a given spring height meaning that a “medium” spring from one manufacturer may be the “hard” spring for another. To make accurate changes you may want to use one spring maker and stick with their line.

Another aspect to pan car springs is that they can get “blown out” and collapse, no longer as stiff or as tall as they were. These should be replaced with fresh springs to ensure consistent handling.

Dampening:

This is generally a minor adjustment, but adding dampening tube fluid to the front kingpins of a 1/12 car can give it a little more initial steering. Often unusual compounds see use here, such as Losi Smart Diff Grease or Associated Green Slime being a popular front kingpin lube.

Caster and Reactive Caster:

Caster is the angle of the kingpin, almost always angling back to the rear of the car, with a typical range from 0-10 degrees. Increasing your caster will typically result in less turn-in but a little more control, more steering exiting the corner, and somewhat increased straight-line stability with less tendency to wander because a wheel running caster will tend to straighten itself. Less caster will usually give you more off-power steering, but often with correspondingly less on-power when accelerating out of the corner.

Running reactive caster attempts to use both of these aspects to increase overall steering: when the car loads up on the outside front tire, the caster angle decreases, increasing the front end ‘hook’ as you enter the corner and then giving you the high caster on-power steering as you exit and weight is transferred off the front end. More reactive caster means more overall steering, but can mean you may have to adjust your driving style to drive more ‘ahead of the car’, needing to predict where the front end will grip.

As grip increases, less reactive caster is the normal tuning change made to keep the front end of the car from gripping too hard and oversteering and prevent traction roll. Static caster adjustments are still used to change the cars on power / off power steering balance.

Reactive Camber and Front Roll Center:

Reactive camber or camber gain is how much camber is added the front wheels as the suspension compresses. This can be increased or decreased by changing the angle and length of the top arm. Short, angled arm = more. Long, flat arm = less. More reactive camber will typically cause the car to “roll up” on the outer front wheel, transferring more weight in a turn and give more steering up to the point at which the tire is overloaded. This is generally more front grip and weight transfer than wanted on carpet, and as a result most cars run a flatter longer front arm.

Roll Center is the point on which the car will twist laterally or ‘roll’ during cornering. This can be raised or lowered by changing the angle and length of the top arm, with a short angled arm raising is slightly and a long flat arm lowering it. From what I have calculated most modern 1/12 cars meant for carpet have a roll center somewhere around the height of the chassis plate or just below it, but due to the lower arms being rigid and flat the roll center cannot be under the bottom of the tires like it often is on a touring car.
These two are inexorably linked in pan cars. Top arm length can be changed by the top arm mount in or out using shims or a CRC Long Arm kit, but is generally a minor tuning choice. Tuning of roll center with shims is usually a minor tuning choice in a pan car with a rigid bottom arm due to how the car cannot gain extra mechanical advantage on the lower arm as you can in a touring car, while reactive camber can be a significant driver of the car’s performance. In a modern car running on carpet the kit setup is usually perfectly fine.

Front End Alignment:

Static camber is the angle of your front wheels at rest, typically somewhere from 0 to 1.5 degrees on a pan car depending on surface, tire choice, and other factors, but a good starting point is usually somewhere around 0.5 degrees. More camber will typically give more steering, but many racers use static camber to ensure that their tires wear flat even if that means not having exactly equal camber on both sides of the car. This is adjusted by threading in and out the upper turnbuckle or pivot ball.

It is also worth noting that when running on high grip the flex and deformation of your chassis, suspension parts, and front wheels can become significant and cause uneven front tire wear. Some troubleshooting of the right combination of static camber, camber gain, caster, and tire/rim choice may be necessary to ensure even front tire wear.

Toe-In:

The front toe is one of the more easily adjusted aspects of the car and can have a significant effect on the attitude of the car due to it being a quick way to moderately adjust Ackerman without making significant other changes. With nothing else being adjusted, going from zero toe to toe-in will give a car a harder turn-in and will tend to scrub speed with the front end as opposed to using drag brake. This can be necessary when racing in Super Stock or higher power classes and will allow you to drive more aggressively, and can help the car track straighter under power. Toe-out will tend to make the car coast more through corners due to reducing the steering angle of the outer front tire. If a car has too much off-power steering but is otherwise stable, adding toe-out can calm the car but may the car to wander on the straights especially if the front end setup is very soft.

Ackerman:

Ackerman is the difference in steering angle between the two front tires during a turn. It is the result of how during a turn the inside of the car experiences a tighter circle and needs correspondingly more steering angle, but is also an important tuning tool. More Ackerman means having more inside wheel steering angle relative to the outer wheel, less means that the difference in steering angle is smaller.

To add or remove Ackerman, using a servo horn that spaces the links further apart (such as a Kimbrough Small Servo Saver, the outer holes on a Tamiya or Xray servo saver) will have more Ackerman than a servo that puts the links close together (Kimbrough Medium inner holes, Tamiya or Xray inner holes.) The rule of thumb is that a servo that puts the ball studs close together but spaced away from the servo horn will have less Ackerman than one that spaces them far apart and close to the servo horn. Ackerman changes will have the same effect as changing toe with more Ackerman being effectively toeing the wheels out and less toeing them in, but will not affect the straight-line attitude of the car.

Turning Circle / Steering Angle:

In offroad or even touring car you can set up the car to use the full angle of the steering 100% of the time. You will almost certainly not be able to do this in 1/12 scale. It goes without saying that as you turn up your steering angle you will gain steering often to the point of the car being undriveable. The quickest way to set the steering correctly is to set the sub-trim in your radio such that the car tracks straight and the servo horn is straight up and down, then set the endpoints equally such that they don't quite hit the steering bump-stops, then turn down the dual-rate or total throw from there. A typical starting point is somewhere between 45 and 60% of the total steering throw, or a 4-5' turning circle.
SOMEONE ELSE DO THE REAR TUNING SECTION! AND A TROUBLESHOOTING TREE! FEEL FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHANGES!

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Old 05-26-2003, 06:35 PM   #3046
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I checked the bearings just now (as well as at the race because I brought a tube of ten) and it isn't the bearings. I have run different tires and still have had the same prob. I have cut tires between runs before to try and make sure they were all the same size. I think I will pick up some 18 guage this weekend and try that. It seems to be the only thing that makes sense. The only other pan cars I ever ran was 10th oval in 93 & 94. Can't say if they would have done the same thing because you don't spend too much time turning right anyway, I was just wondering if you guys notice your cars favoring the right while cornering and accellerating. I figured if you guys run alot of 12th scale and could tell me if it is a characteristic of all pan cars because of diff location.
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Old 05-26-2003, 07:31 PM   #3047
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Make sure that nothing is binding in the front end. the dynamic strut is known for having alot of problems. so makes sure that the arms drop under their own weight (with the king pin off) and also that the king pin doesnt bind at all.

the wires would add a slight bit of preload, but its pretty much negligable with 14 gauge. from what you said it wasnt clear if this car was a parts car or not, if it is, make sure the holes are for a 12l3 not the oval car, since your t-bar might be off center or something.

also have the local 12th scale drivers check it out, since you might of build sometihng wrong possibly without knowing it.


and defently roll the car without a motor in it and see if it does it then.
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Old 05-26-2003, 07:57 PM   #3048
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What I figured was if a car I threw together from spare parts was really good, imagine what a brand new one would be like. This car is a brand new 12l3 road car. So it has all of the correct stuff on it. I am sure the problem I am having is staring me right in the face and I just don't see it yet. Experience has tought me, somtimes the harder you look, the harder the problem is to see. Thanks for the help guys. I will defiately revisit the front end and check for bindage.
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Old 05-27-2003, 05:34 AM   #3049
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Thanks for rollout advice, my fellow 12th scale racers...

too bad more people don't run 6 cell mod... talk about training your reflexes!

I'll post some vids very soon... it might convince some of you to give it a try... With 8th scale onroad, it's the ultimate RC adrenalin rush!

Later
Paul

PS: Muffin... no veering to the right on my car... sorry... But the wires putting constraints on the rear pod is a classic indeed... good luck with your troubleshooting!
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Old 05-27-2003, 06:01 AM   #3050
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muffin: Change the T-bar. Put a fresh T-bar on the car and be very careful when you put the tweak screws in it. I spent alot of time driving 12L's before the advent of "t-bar free"" cars, and if I had an issue like that, it was almost always the T-bar. I'd put 16 guage motor leads on, and fresh T-bar, and then try it.
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Old 05-27-2003, 04:18 PM   #3051
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Thanks for the help guys. I am going to work on the car tonight. I will let you know what I come up with when the problem disappears. Art
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Old 05-27-2003, 05:00 PM   #3052
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I'm going to order my stuff for my car tonight. I'm still having trouble trying to find the Kimbrough small Airtronics servo saver. Would the Kimbrough mid sized servo saver fit the servo gear? Or is it still to big? I think it might fit the CK because the servo mounts put the servo up in the air a little bit. How many splines does the 94145 have? Would any servo saver that has the same amount of splines as the servo fit it? Thanks!
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Old 05-27-2003, 06:47 PM   #3053
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Default New Associated 12th car??

I have read some reports on the net that a new Associated 1/12th car is on the horizon. I also hear this car will include many IRS parts up to and including the Rug Rat 4-cell chassis and dual side dampeners they offer as a conversion for the 12L3.

Has anyone else heard this or anything similar? I would like to get my hands on a new car from Associated for the fall instead of updating my current car with the IRS conversion.

Thanks in advance

Bob Zahn
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Old 05-27-2003, 06:56 PM   #3054
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Last I heard was IRS releasing their own car, with all the IRS parts, including side dampers, big diff, rug rat chassis, and adjustable roll centre front pivots.

That was a while ago, though.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:25 AM   #3055
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Default Re: Retro

Quote:
Originally posted by THEBIGBULL
DX6

Retro,old school, and old style , I'm sure are all the old style associated front suspension. Like the origial 12LW and 1/10 associated pancars. If you look closely at the different pictures on CRC or Speed Merchant web site you can see the difference. I swithched from an L3 last winter to a carpet knife. I wanted to try something different (SICK OF TAPING BATTERIES), and I bought The Boody Knife(THe RED EYE CANDY I HAD TO HAVE). Get the XTRA shock and tweek springs right away. What I really liked was being able to see and feel the difference in handling when you make changes in the spring selection. Now that I have the"BK" I wanted to try the REV3. I can fax you the set up sheet for the Rev3. and also a picture of the old school front end (from an old associated manual. I don't have the technology to E mail it. But if you Give me the area code and a fax # Ican send it to you. I am going to Shoogoo the servo in, for a start. Get the small Kimbrough servo saver. The one that was posted on the forum looks like the rite one. I have been racing 1/12 for years and have never stripped any servo gears (But have broken many servo savers.) The single REV3 sheet I have tells you how to align the servo properly.

Terry
what differences occur as you change the side springs and the VCS shock springs? thanks...
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Old 05-28-2003, 03:20 AM   #3056
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Default My opinion

Changing the center spring stiffer seems to add high speed steering by a lot. Low speed steering goes away too.

Too stiff of a center spring will make the car fly (literally) over bumps like its a spring board.. So when the going gets rough, I need a softer center spring.

Softer center spring also helps rear traction.


Side springs seem to chang how the car reacts to turning in. Stiffer springs make turn in quicker and the car more twitchy.

I use the white side springs most of the time and don't mess with them too much. I change the center spring acording to track conditons AND my driving for that day. I use Red, Copper and sometimes CRC stiff. These are .045", .047" and .050" diamater wire. Mostly Copper. I do not know what Black Associated spring is in Diamater. Maybe some one could measure it for me.

This is on a CRC carpet knife with NO T-Bar.

David Root
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Old 05-28-2003, 08:44 AM   #3057
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i remember seeing some people on the board running mtroniks m3 esc in there 12th cars. can you tell me what punch setting you use for your 4cell mod. i will be using the esc first time on saturday and would like a starting point cos i wont have much time to get it set up.
thanks alot.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:33 PM   #3058
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Default servo saver

dx6-
Hobby Etc has the small servo saver. I'm sure many other suppliers do also if you look hard enough.

By the way, with the old style front end you should mount the servo flat, and with the new style mount it at an angle for the correct geometry.
O'D
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:40 PM   #3059
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Default Re: My opinion

Quote:
Originally posted by David Root
Changing the center spring stiffer seems to add high speed steering by a lot. Low speed steering goes away too.

Too stiff of a center spring will make the car fly (literally) over bumps like its a spring board.. So when the going gets rough, I need a softer center spring.

Softer center spring also helps rear traction.


Side springs seem to chang how the car reacts to turning in. Stiffer springs make turn in quicker and the car more twitchy.

I use the white side springs most of the time and don't mess with them too much. I change the center spring acording to track conditons AND my driving for that day. I use Red, Copper and sometimes CRC stiff. These are .045", .047" and .050" diamater wire. Mostly Copper. I do not know what Black Associated spring is in Diamater. Maybe some one could measure it for me.

This is on a CRC carpet knife with NO T-Bar.

David Root
thanks a lot.. will experiment as soon as i get batts for my carpet knife...

the white side springs are the ones that came with the red edition?

also, does it matter if you use a standard or micro servo? as far as handling is concerned?
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Old 05-28-2003, 03:21 PM   #3060
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Default Re: Re: My opinion

Quote:
Originally posted by highwayman
also, does it matter if you use a standard or micro servo? as far as handling is concerned?
It will change the weight distribution; on a light 1/12 car, that will make a difference. A heavier servo will move weight forward, this will do a couple of things, Im not sure exactly. I suspect it will make the car tend to push, but Im not 100% sure.
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Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 08:26 PM



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