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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 01-27-2009, 06:37 PM   #30481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
A race car is a package. Everything you do is done to enhance the package, as a whole. Just a few "not noticeable things" ends up with improvement to the package that might not yield an immediately tangible result. Unless you're running a car with less than a .4 or less consistency, all the time, you're not going to notice the things that make the car run at a .35 consistency. That number would be based on the entire run, with no mulligans . And those consistency numbers should relate to the pack fading, and your fastest lap coming in the first 8 laps.

Minor improvements, almost undetectable to 95% of drivers, .05 faster over 8.8 seconds, with a MUCH large chance of NOT getting corner marshaled, due to increased consistency.

8.5 lap, with a .40 error factor yields a 54/480.60
8.5 lap, with a .35 error factor yields a 55/486.75

Point is, a balanced pod is part of the package. just like a good diff, good ride height, etc. you want to get as many pieces of your puzzle, or "package" as close as you can to what is ideal... for you. All things are important to look at.

AND, there's always a different way to solve a problem. that dude felt adding lead to the drivers side of the pod balanced it out for him. If that's the case (for him), the other way to do that with almost no weight penalty is to get the motor in the pod and slide a motor spacer in between the motor and the pod plate on the pinion side, slides the motor about a 1/10th.
That is the first time I have ever heard someone explain something I have always just sort of known on my own. Bloody brilliant. I'm not talking about pod balance here, just small improvements in general. Thanks for posting that.

I can't tell you how many times someone has asked me if this aluminum screw or that ti hinge pin or some other little tweak really makes any difference and the answer is no, not really. But when combined with 20 other little tweaks major improvements can be found.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:37 PM   #30482
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[QUOTE=Bob-Stormer;5350008]A race car is a package. Everything you do is done to enhance the package, as a whole. Just a few "not noticeable things" ends up with improvement to the package that might not yield an immediately tangible result. Unless you're running a car with less than a .4 or less consistency, all the time, you're not going to notice the things that make the car run at a .35 consistency. That number would be based on the entire run, with no mulligans . And those consistency numbers should relate to the pack fading, and your fastest lap coming in the first 8 laps.

Minor improvements, almost undetectable to 95% of drivers, .05 faster over 8.8 seconds, with a MUCH large chance of NOT getting corner marshaled, due to increased consistency.

8.5 lap, with a .40 error factor yields a 54/480.60
8.5 lap, with a .35 error factor yields a 55/486.75

Point is, a balanced pod is part of the package. just like a good diff, good ride height, etc. you want to get as many pieces of your puzzle, or "package" as close as you can to what is ideal... for you. All things are important to look at.[QUOTE]



Very well put and worth reposting.

Basicly I started with a complete basket case for my first 1/12. Everything was pretty much tore up, used up, bent, cracked....You get the idea. Its a CRC V3.? so standard brushed pod. I get it, not thinking about the pod being sepret and balance everything at once. Throw it on the track and see what it does. After pretty much a complete rebuild of the car over a month it still hooks ! Then I pull the motor and check balance. It dropped like a brick to the right. So I spend a couple of nights redoing the chassis lay out. Got it good and then dropped the motor in. Of course it fell to the left. So on goes two lead chunks on the lower pod under the pinion. Poor mans balanced pod? I can also now check tweak from either end of the car.

Anyway, the car drove perfect from there on. Yes everything else was new by then but it has lasted 3 races so far with just clean, charge and dope. Love it.

Bob...your error formula? What would you need to figure mine out? I had a really good run, for me, and wondering what it is. I could only hold a 1.1 sec tolerance though. Not sure if its worth the hassle.

DK

Edit, not sure why the quote didnt work.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:56 PM   #30483
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Originally Posted by PartTime View Post

Anyway, the car drove perfect from there on. Yes everything else was new by then but it has lasted 3 races so far with just clean, charge and dope. Love it.

Bob...your error formula? What would you need to figure mine out? I had a really good run, for me, and wondering what it is. I could only hold a 1.1 sec tolerance though. Not sure if its worth the hassle.
Here's a quick summary.
How's your driving? The "Stormer error correction", thread.

All you're really doing is finding your average lap during a run, and subtracting your fastest to get the number. the closer you can drive your car to the fastest possible lap that it can achieve, the more accurately you are driving. and the better the car is, as a package.

Gives you a rough idea how everything works together and a reference point against others in your heat.

It's just a tool to help analyze what you have going on.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #30484
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I think I have an answer to get more guys to run 1/12 scale........obviously the car would need to be updated a little as this one didn't have tweak screws to perfectly balance the car, front tie rods that had an 1/8" of slop side to side and probably a little too much horsepower for most beginners, but boy, would it be fun!





OK, so maybe I'm being a bit sarchastic here, but the point is that you don't have to have a car balanced to .0000001 grams or the latest 3.7 voltage lipo(heck, you can get 3.6v by running three Nimh cells) or the latest hi tech unobtainium car design to have fun racing 1/12 scale. A current rendition of the Assoc. 12i would be perfect for beginners. No front end parts to adjust and a rear pod suspended by a wire and tiny spring. It was even offered with a fiberglass chassis for the budget minded. I couldn't find a pic of a 12i but I bet Bob Stormer still has one. Make it easier to work on and drive and they will come. oops, this probably should have been posted in the Future of 1/12 scale thread, but it stills applies here to all those worried about having a brushless pod design. In 20 years of running 1/12 scale I have never, I repeat never, checked the blanance of my cars chassis and it seems to work just fine. Ok I do check the tweak before running, but I have no clue if the chassis is weight balanced or not. Would it really run that different if I took out the Novak Atom esc and put in something heavier? I think not.

Let the flaming begin!
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:08 PM   #30485
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Stupid question but, how to you get the average for a group of laps?

DK
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:13 PM   #30486
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Stupid question but, how to you get the average for a group of laps?

DK

Good ole fashioned math. Add up all the times of the group of laps, then divide the total by the amount of laps you added together.

Example for 5 laps.

7.5+7.6+7.5+7.7+7.9=38.2seconds

38.2/5 laps=7.64 average lap time
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:21 PM   #30487
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
A race car is a package. Everything you do is done to enhance the package, as a whole. Just a few "not noticeable things" ends up with improvement to the package that might not yield an immediately tangible result...
Are you telling us to check our package?
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:28 PM   #30488
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Stupid question but, how to you get the average for a group of laps?

DK
Add all the lap times together, then divide the sum by the number of laps.

Example: five laps, 10.1, 10.0 10.1, 9.8, 14.4(crash)
total = 54.4 divide by five you get an average of 10.88. Notice how the one crash KILLS the average... if that fifth lap was even the same as the slower of the other four, the average would be 10.02.

If you average 10.88 for an eight minute run, you finish with a slow 44 lap run, just crossing your 43rd lap right before the tone.

Average 10.02 for eight minutes you finish with 47 laps, skirting the edge of a 48.

This is why clean driving beats hopups. Spending money on practice always gets the most return. I don't know if I said it in this thread or another one, but I recently mentioned that if the balanced pod was good for a tenth a lap, all I'd need to be TQ at my track would be four and a half balanced pods on the car. Or one good clean qualifying heat, as opposed to one my typical five crash horror shows...
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Last edited by Trips; 01-27-2009 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:33 PM   #30489
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Originally Posted by SpraydbySprague View Post
Good ole fashioned math. Add up all the times of the group of laps, then divide the total by the amount of laps you added together.

Example for 5 laps.

7.5+7.6+7.5+7.7+7.9=38.2seconds

38.2/5 laps=7.64 average lap time
Thanks

Average lap 9.2
fast lap 8.8
error .470 ?? The car is easy to drive. Not too bad for a club racer?

There was two of us nose to tail the whole time in the heats. He didnt run the main. His was .395. Was really looking forward to the main too. Looks like it was a good thing. I would have gotten spanked.

DK

Edit: That was for the first 20 laps. .513 for the whole run. Competitor was .496. Guess I did out motor him. Safe bet to say that the 13.5/1c is faster than a 17.5/4c ?

Last edited by PartTime; 01-27-2009 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:21 PM   #30490
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I'm in need of an axle for my black widow. Is the IRS2111 here for the switchblade the same one? Or do I need to use the assoc style large d-ring? Thanks.
Nobody?
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:45 PM   #30491
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Nobody?
Not that nobody is willing to help, it's that THAT car is pretty obscure. And it's not quite as easy as "will it fit". It's a 1/4" axle... they'll all "fit". and there's more to it than the diff ring, like the spacing between the ring and the back of the flange where it meets the pod, and also what's left over on the threaded end to tighten it up.

I think we have that axle for $16, but there are no dimensions on it.
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...=ns&pn=IRS2111
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:50 PM   #30492
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Are you telling us to check our package?
Yes, and when you have time, check your car.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:12 PM   #30493
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
Not that nobody is willing to help, it's that THAT car is pretty obscure. And it's not quite as easy as "will it fit". It's a 1/4" axle... they'll all "fit". and there's more to it than the diff ring, like the spacing between the ring and the back of the flange where it meets the pod, and also what's left over on the threaded end to tighten it up.

I think we have that axle for $16, but there are no dimensions on it.
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...=ns&pn=IRS2111
I'm well aware of that. What I was meaning by "nobody" is, does nobody know? I'm also well aware of the "will it fit" matter. Hence me trying to make sure I get the right one. Yeap, Trinity blows. Does anybody happen to know where I can find a switchblade 12 manual or even happen to know if that car used a clamping type hub on the driver side? If all else fails. Ill hit up IRS and have them make me one. I can't see them making more then one for Trinity though. Any help would be just swell.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:48 PM   #30494
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Found the manual for you http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/trin...dow_Manual.pdf

Hope it helps.

Edit: Sorry misread your post
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:55 PM   #30495
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Thanks man. But I need a Switchblade 12 manual. I have an actual BW manual in hand. I also found out that the axle I need is the same one as on the Reflex 12... Anyone have a parts car.
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