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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 12-04-2008, 12:40 PM   #29836
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Thanks Trips.

Tony
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:57 PM   #29837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeadman View Post
What I am wondering is other than Mark Payne's blocg are there any other good tutorials on what changes in the setup do to the handelling of the car.

Specifically I am looking for cornering speed and the ammout of push through a corner on power and off.
You'll find Rich Chang's setup tips document useful I'm sure:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...12_summary.pdf
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Old 12-05-2008, 07:00 AM   #29838
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Thanks that's the one I was looking for. Now on another note, does anyone have any tips pn driving technique?

as I have only raced Outdoor Offroad and indoor carpet is totally differerent I find that I tend to overshoot corners as well as not looking ahead and slamming into other cars.

And any general information about good setups and possible things to look out for as a newb.

Thanks
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:07 PM   #29839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeadman View Post
Thanks that's the one I was looking for. Now on another note, does anyone have any tips pn driving technique?

as I have only raced Outdoor Offroad and indoor carpet is totally differerent I find that I tend to overshoot corners as well as not looking ahead and slamming into other cars.

And any general information about good setups and possible things to look out for as a newb.

Thanks
Hey Deadman, I'm a newcomer to 1/12th this year. I started RC last winter racing 1/18th stock trucks, this summer it was 1/10th pan cars and this winter 1/12th.

Best thing I found for setups and "look outs" is to talk to people. There are great people in this hobby who will help if you ask. The other racers often help me in identifying problems or things I can do to be more competitive. There are links in this thread to Swift Racing on setting up a front end and to Richard Chang's hint sheet. Check 'em out. Talk to the guys who have cars the same as or similar to yours for ideas on setups.

Straight line speed is easy to come by, just spend $$$ but if you can't make a turn efficiently you won't place. Handling is more important to me than speed cause I don't have it yet.

These cars look simple but to do well means paying attention to detail. My personal gremlin is my T-bar screws keep loosening up and cause me to have issues. I have to check them between races or I'll have problems. I keep a list of things that have caused trouble and make sure to check them between races. After every race day I write a log in a spiral note book with the things that worked, those which didn't, and things that I should consider for next time. The log includes problems I had and the fixes I tried. Next is to make a list of things to do to get ready for next time; clean the car, put the tires on the lathe, prep motor, grind a bit off the chassis so the batteries are more secure, change out ride height adjusters, and clean up the wiring so it clears the center shock, that sort of stuff. I also keep a list of parts that I have purchased. Hope the wife doesn't read it.

Next use a setup sheet, most car suppliers have them on their websites. Use them or make your own. I also made one for my radio because my kids seem to enjoy resetting it on me lately. I have small kids who like daddy's toys. I keep these sheets in a binder and bring it with me to the track.

Also buy good new batteries and practice good management of them. You don't need latest 50 bazillion mahr batteries, just good ones that will get you through the race with a bit to spare. A good charger is as important as the batteries. I started off with an entry level charger and quickly found it wanting during the winter. I have upgraded to an LRP Pulsar 3.

Run in only one class to start with.

If you can afford it get your own transponder and a DSM radio to help keep it simple on race day.

And above all don't forget to corner marshall, volunteer for extra duty when you have time and to smile. Good luck.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:39 PM   #29840
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Lee,

Thanks for the info. it's a great post. I am going to start with the notebook and I know what you mean with the little fingers playing with daddy's toys. My 19 month old just Loves to play with my transmitter when the car is on to see the wheel's turn.

The biggest problem I am having is consistency. or if you are mathematically inclined Standard Deviation. My fist few races my SD was about 1.9 Now I'm getting it down to .9 to 1.1 But I Have only raced at 3 club meetings. So I am improving. I have good batteries (well good enough for now) and possibly for next year going to matched cells.

I have a link car (CRC Carpet knife 3.2R) so I don't have that problem but I have had screws back out on me and I have started to use Locktite. It's wonderful stuff.

I have been told by a few of the racers that I Have to go SLOW to go FAST! I never know what that meant until I geared down (smaller pinion and larger spur) and saw the difference. I had Way more control and my consistency went Wayyyyyyyy Up.

Again Thank you all for all your posting and input
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:22 AM   #29841
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i have a RC12 L3 and have had it for a few years and im looking for a new 1:12th preferably somthing that uses metric nuts and bots instead of imperail cos its just annoying cos i cannot buy things for an team associated at my local shop is there any other 1:12ths that are quick and around the 200 mark, any other sudgestions would be greatly apreciated.
but i would be willing to get the RC12 R5 if its anygood.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:28 AM   #29842
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I just picked up a 12R5 to poke at and play with. Seems like a pretty nice piece of kit and definitely meets your metric fastener requirement. Not sure what UK price would be but I can't see it being 200GBP as the street price here is $200. That makes them the least expensive "current" kit I'm aware of, advantage to production coming from China where all the other players (BMI, CRC, SpeedMerchant, etc) are producing right here in the US afaik. I know for fact BMI is.
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:32 PM   #29843
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Originally Posted by jdeadman View Post
Thanks that's the one I was looking for. Now on another note, does anyone have any tips pn driving technique?

as I have only raced Outdoor Offroad and indoor carpet is totally differerent I find that I tend to overshoot corners as well as not looking ahead and slamming into other cars.

And any general information about good setups and possible things to look out for as a newb.

Thanks
As far as driving technique, the things I find most important are staying ahead of the track, and being able to expand your focus...

The first, staying ahead of the track is the simpler of the two. Coming from off road, you're probably noticing that in foam tire carpet racing things come at you FAST... approaches to corners are at much higher speeds than in off road. If you're not using reference points, you're likely to overshoot a lot of corners. I find my best lap times happen when I can have the car rotated and pointed in the direction it needs to be going by the time I pass the apex of a corner... take a simple hairpin for example... if I get to the middle of the corner and my car is not pointed in the direction of the next corner, I have to waste time getting the car rotated... it should already be rotated most or all of the way by the time I clear the board. If it's not, I tend to think it's because I'm reacting to the track rather than anticipating or "staying ahead" of the track. And on the rug, if you're reacting to the track, you won't be fast. Things just happen too quickly and reaction times add up.

THe other matter, expanding your focus, is the harder to explain... When I'm concentrating on my car, it';s like my attention or awareness zooms in on the car itself and a small "bubble" around it. The harder I concentrate on my car, the smaller that bubble of awareness gets. It's like tunnel vision. I tend to not see what's going on around me, and it's very hard to anticipate things... a stuck car on the apex of a corner won't "appear" in my visual field until it's too late to avoid hitting it, or I'll overshoot a corner because I don't see it until I'm past the spot where i should have let off the throttle or turned in... it'll feel like everything is happening too quickly and I'm fighting just to keep with it all.

If I try to "pull back" my attention from my car itself, I am sometimes able to take in a lot more of what's going on... some days I can "zoom out" my concentration to the point where I can almost see everything that's happening on the track and still see what my car is doing... when I can get in that mode, it's much easier to drive a good line because I can see my car, my reference points and everything else around and process it all without having to think about it. On really good days, cars have crashed a little bit in front of me and I've been able to make a small correction to avoid getting caught up in the incident almost before I'm consciously aware of what's happened. It's like my subconscious has spotted what's happening and made my hand make the correction before the crash has even registered in my conscious mind... The older I get, the less often I seem to be able to get into that mental state though... I'm not really sure what used to help me get there when it came a lot easier, but I'd love to figure it out... I used to be able to get into a relaxed state right before a run where I could just empty my head (not that there's much in there these days) and let the subconscious side take over...

As far as things to look out for... Always check for any interference between the body and the car that might impede free movement of the pod, make sure your wiring can't impede the pod movement in any way, and look in the body for tire rub marks after a run... any of these will cause inconsistent handling problems and have you chasing the setup... collapsed front springs can cause odd behavior, so check and replace often, especially the lighter springs like .018 or .020's. Check the rear axle bearings regularly by taking the pinion off and giving the axle a spin. IT should spin freely and as it stops you should see it rock back and forth a bit as the heavy side of the tires settles to the bottom. Any slight bind there will have a bigger impact on performance than you might expect. Look for no friction and minimum slop on any pivot balls, or your handling won't be as good as it can be. The only place I'll tolerate some slop is in the steering tie rods. I always like a bit of slop there, but nowhere else. The older Corally cars used to come with a warning note in the build manual to NOT remove the slop[ in the steering linkage or it would make the car harder to drive. I didn't believe it until I DID remove the slop, and they were right... the car got harder to drive and my lap times got slower.

One other thing I can think of right now... forget feel. Go by lap times when you evaluate setup changes. I've put cars down and felt absolutely DIALED and been a second a lap off the pace... and I've put cars down that felt nasty and been had the best lap times that day, so don't be fooled by how the car feels... a slow setup can often feel GREAT to drive, only the lap times will tell you if it's really good or not.
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:44 PM   #29844
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Very good posts .... but I'll add the one thing that always seems to jump up and get me .... did again Sunday Always check all the fastners as they seem to back out at the most in-appropriate times, like being 2nd qualifier in the mains and TQ is broke ..... so here's my chance until the car started handling like a "Big Wheel" on Ice!!
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:37 PM   #29845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trips View Post
As far as driving technique, the things I find most important are staying ahead of the track, and being able to expand your focus...

The first, staying ahead of the track is the simpler of the two. Coming from off road, you're probably noticing that in foam tire carpet racing things come at you FAST... approaches to corners are at much higher speeds than in off road. If you're not using reference points, you're likely to overshoot a lot of corners. I find my best lap times happen when I can have the car rotated and pointed in the direction it needs to be going by the time I pass the apex of a corner... take a simple hairpin for example... if I get to the middle of the corner and my car is not pointed in the direction of the next corner, I have to waste time getting the car rotated... it should already be rotated most or all of the way by the time I clear the board. If it's not, I tend to think it's because I'm reacting to the track rather than anticipating or "staying ahead" of the track. And on the rug, if you're reacting to the track, you won't be fast. Things just happen too quickly and reaction times add up.

THe other matter, expanding your focus, is the harder to explain... When I'm concentrating on my car, it';s like my attention or awareness zooms in on the car itself and a small "bubble" around it. The harder I concentrate on my car, the smaller that bubble of awareness gets. It's like tunnel vision. I tend to not see what's going on around me, and it's very hard to anticipate things... a stuck car on the apex of a corner won't "appear" in my visual field until it's too late to avoid hitting it, or I'll overshoot a corner because I don't see it until I'm past the spot where i should have let off the throttle or turned in... it'll feel like everything is happening too quickly and I'm fighting just to keep with it all.

If I try to "pull back" my attention from my car itself, I am sometimes able to take in a lot more of what's going on... some days I can "zoom out" my concentration to the point where I can almost see everything that's happening on the track and still see what my car is doing... when I can get in that mode, it's much easier to drive a good line because I can see my car, my reference points and everything else around and process it all without having to think about it. On really good days, cars have crashed a little bit in front of me and I've been able to make a small correction to avoid getting caught up in the incident almost before I'm consciously aware of what's happened. It's like my subconscious has spotted what's happening and made my hand make the correction before the crash has even registered in my conscious mind... The older I get, the less often I seem to be able to get into that mental state though... I'm not really sure what used to help me get there when it came a lot easier, but I'd love to figure it out... I used to be able to get into a relaxed state right before a run where I could just empty my head (not that there's much in there these days) and let the subconscious side take over...
One of the best writen descriptions of this that I've ever seen! Well done, and I would have never thought of telling this as a driving tip before but should. After reading your post, I realized that this is exactly what's going on when you're the fastest and why I have a tendancy to hit stuff when it isn't. I started racing again yesterday after a 5 year lay off and found that I was not doing a very good job of this at all. I was focusing too much on the car and over shooting corners a lot. This will make next weekend a lot easier I think. Great stuff and thanks for posting!
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:54 PM   #29846
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WOW!!!!!!! So totally true. I raced on Sunday and started to be more consistant. Going slower is totally the way to go. And Looking more forward really helps. I'm still going slower then the top 5 guys but I made it to the A-Main this week which was cool and came in 4th.

Just a couple of questions about setup.

How (with out a setup board) do I set camber and Toe or the CRC 3.2R. I Think I may be having basic setup issues. On power up THe car tends to pull to the left.

Thanks Again
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:04 PM   #29847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeadman View Post
Lee,
The biggest problem I am having is consistency. or if you are mathematically inclined Standard Deviation. My fist few races my SD was about 1.9 Now I'm getting it down to .9 to 1.1 But I Have only raced at 3 club meetings. So I am improving.

I have been told by a few of the racers that I Have to go SLOW to go FAST! I never know what that meant until I geared down (smaller pinion and larger spur) and saw the difference. I had Way more control and my consistency went Wayyyyyyyy Up.

Again Thank you all for all your posting and input
I have a feeling you'll find this thread interesting. I know I did.
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:03 PM   #29848
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i noticed while viewing some pictures of 1/12 cars that some of the drivers have a large vise like thing holding the car while they work on it .. is that something that is still around or was this something that someone made up?
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:32 PM   #29849
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Anyone have a pic?
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:02 PM   #29850
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I should know the answer to this but I've been gone a while.......how does changing the roll center affect a 1/12 scale car and under which track conditions do you want either higher or lower roll center? I am using the IRS caster blocks that have four mounting points for the upper arm hinge pin and want to experiment a little. I'm currently running the pins in the upper outside position which gets you the shortest upper arm length and the least amount of camber gain. This should also give me the lowest roll center available, I think.

Moving the pin to the inside upper position will increase camber gain and should raise the roll center slightly. What conditions would I want to use this and how will it affect the turning capabilities? And to add more confusion, when would I want to use the lower mounting points, both inside and out?

Shorter version of the question could be....if my car is pushing, will changing the upper arm pivot point help?
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