R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-15-2008, 05:03 PM   #29326
Tech Elite
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,296
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Here's a couple pictures of my T-Fource with an LRP ESC and Novak 13.5 installed. You shouldn't have any issues.
Attached Thumbnails
1/12 forum-t-fource.jpg   1/12 forum-t-fource-pod.jpg  
PutAwayWet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 05:20 PM   #29327
Tech Regular
 
junelopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 274
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
Here's a couple pictures of my T-Fource with an LRP ESC and Novak 13.5 installed. You shouldn't have any issues.
How well does it preforms? I thought that the reason they CRC came out with the new chassis is because the old one did allow BL motors. I feel so stupit..

Thanks for the information..

do you run on asphalt and carpet?
__________________
Kyosho V-One RRR WC | Losi Type R | AE SC10
BMI DB12R -1/12th scale | BMI DB10R World GT (IN/OUT)
SJCCR | Jackson RC |301 Raceway |Mushroom Bowl |Horsham RC
junelopez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 05:34 PM   #29328
Tech Elite
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,296
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I run on asphalt and carpet.

CRC's new pod and hub are optimized for longer brushless motors and their attendant difference in weight distribution within the pod. They're for the Gen X, only. But brushless motors have been run for several years now in CRC and other 1/12th scale cars without any real problems.

That said, I'm hoping CRC will update the T-Fource soon, leaving the standard front end and simply tuning the pod/hub for brushless motors as they have the Gen X. Until then, though, I'm running it exactly as you see it.
PutAwayWet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 06:05 PM   #29329
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 59
Default Delrin rear bulkhead

Do the Speed Merchant delrin rear bulkheads fit the AE12L and CRC t-fource cars? Is it the same bolt pattern?
Tuner EM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 06:34 PM   #29330
Tech Regular
 
junelopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 274
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
I run on asphalt and carpet.

CRC's new pod and hub are optimized for longer brushless motors and their attendant difference in weight distribution within the pod. They're for the Gen X, only. But brushless motors have been run for several years now in CRC and other 1/12th scale cars without any real problems.

That said, I'm hoping CRC will update the T-Fource soon, leaving the standard front end and simply tuning the pod/hub for brushless motors as they have the Gen X. Until then, though, I'm running it exactly as you see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuner EM View Post
Do the Speed Merchant delrin rear bulkheads fit the AE12L and CRC t-fource cars? Is it the same bolt pattern?

Thak you both of you for all the advise. I am keeping the car and hope that I can win some laps in the cold season. :0)
__________________
Kyosho V-One RRR WC | Losi Type R | AE SC10
BMI DB12R -1/12th scale | BMI DB10R World GT (IN/OUT)
SJCCR | Jackson RC |301 Raceway |Mushroom Bowl |Horsham RC
junelopez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 07:16 PM   #29331
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 734
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuner EM View Post
Do the Speed Merchant delrin rear bulkheads fit the AE12L and CRC t-fource cars? Is it the same bolt pattern?
At first my initial thought was no. But I dug out some spare delrin plates and tried them on my old hyperform car (12l4 graphite conversion w/ tubes) It fits with both graphite pieces attached as well. This was a 3 bolt rear pod, the 4 bolt rear pod should work as well since the rev 4.5 used the 4 bolt pod and the rev 5 uses the same bottom plate.

You may have to dremel a bit of your bottom pod plate from your tbar car to get the motor to sit flush against the pod plate though. You also need a tweak brace with damper tubes as well which the t force has, but the 12l series do not. Your results may vary.

Measure the rear plates holes. My hyperform car measures about 60.5mm from center to center of the holes.

Edit: Another thing to consider that just popped in my head. The ballstud on the rev5 is mounted back compared to a tbar car. The distance to the shock mount may be further since the t bar pushes it closer to the front of the car.

Last edited by JoelV; 09-15-2008 at 07:59 PM.
JoelV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 08:34 PM   #29332
Tech Addict
 
Tubaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Riverton, WY
Posts: 582
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by junelopez View Post

BTW, does anyone here run the diggity design chassis, the one with the battery down the center?

I appreciate your advise in advance.
I run with a with a guy who uses that car. He seems to have a lot of problems with the ballcup on the center spring popping off when hit. Last time we raced, he tangled me, and I went end over end, but my car was ok. 2 corners later, I lightly tapped him and he broke in the main. *shrug*. Not sure if it was already broke or what, but during that race, he kept having broken ballcups on the shock.

Paul
__________________
www.wyomingrc.com | www.wyomingmodelerspark.com
Tubaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 09:20 PM   #29333
Tech Master
 
CorallyBQuiK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pingree ND
Posts: 1,298
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Here are some pics of my updated prototype FF07 conversion kit made by Jari Taskila. It has the lowest center a gravity of any 12th car on the market, Brushless motor friendly, and the new parts let you implement the new associated front end and damper shock, this new version is in testing and maybe availible soon Here is his website http://www.ffrcconcepts.com/

Thanks Tyler
Attached Thumbnails
1/12 forum-101_0044.jpg   1/12 forum-101_0046.jpg   1/12 forum-101_0043.jpg  
__________________
Team CRC - Corally USA/Specialized RC International - FF'07 RC Concepts - Hurricane Motorsports - Ken"s Graf/x - Team PRCP - Team Genesis R/C
CorallyBQuiK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 09:41 PM   #29334
Tech Addict
 
flatspunout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace
Posts: 696
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

New to 1/12th, previous rubber tire TC experience and 1/10th oval (pavement converted buggy and pancar) in the late 80's/early 90's... thought I was getting into a "driver's class" but after reading pages upon pages of posts in this thread it seems more like I have stumbled into a "mathematician's class" I do have an actual question but first I think I would like to hear someone say that it is ok to run pretrued tires without knowing my rollout, run the stock diff and shock, and just learn to drive the car without worrying myself to death over a .5 mm ride height adjustment!

And the actual question is: Are the "Gurney flaps" on my Protoform Speed
12b worth mounting? Will they have a noticeable effect and will they become track debris the first time I get upside down? I don't think I have ever seen them in a picture and the PF website stock photo doesn't show them either...I'm not positive I would have them mounted correctly even if I did decide to use them. Thanks for any input!

-rocky b
flatspunout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 10:29 PM   #29335
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatspunout View Post
New to 1/12th, previous rubber tire TC experience and 1/10th oval (pavement converted buggy and pancar) in the late 80's/early 90's... thought I was getting into a "driver's class" but after reading pages upon pages of posts in this thread it seems more like I have stumbled into a "mathematician's class" I do have an actual question but first I think I would like to hear someone say that it is ok to run pretrued tires without knowing my rollout, run the stock diff and shock, and just learn to drive the car without worrying myself to death over a .5 mm ride height adjustment!

And the actual question is: Are the "Gurney flaps" on my Protoform Speed
12b worth mounting? Will they have a noticeable effect and will they become track debris the first time I get upside down? I don't think I have ever seen them in a picture and the PF website stock photo doesn't show them either...I'm not positive I would have them mounted correctly even if I did decide to use them. Thanks for any input!

-rocky b
For the most part yes it's ok to not be so concerned about roll out...given your previous pan car experience your probabaly pretty capable of getting a close gear ratio without taking it to the precise extreme of roll out. Most of the cars have a very capable stock shock and differential. Ride height though really will effect handling so that at least you'll want to get really close front to rear.

On our small track I really couldn't feel a difference between using the added spoiler or not. It did hold on just fine when bolted on. On a large track where you get up to speeds where aerodynamics make more of a difference you would notice it.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 04:58 AM   #29336
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,978
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

All this talk of chassis being "brushless motor friendly" got me to wanting to ask about my 12L3. Can that chassis accommodate brushless motors without modification of some sort? If not, what do I need to adjust so I can put a brushless in the pod?
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 05:50 AM   #29337
Tech Adept
 
Keith Sawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kennesaw Ga.
Posts: 166
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Burns View Post
Anyone know where I can get small spur gears for 12th . Right now the smallest I can find locally is 88. I know PRS make 76 and 80 tooth spurs but shipping to Canada is $20 for one spur.
Try Nexusracing.net
Keith Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 08:03 AM   #29338
Tech Master
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 757 Holeshot
Posts: 1,399
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default




fav0re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 08:20 AM   #29339
Tech Master
 
David Galdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 1,652
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to David Galdo Send a message via AIM to David Galdo Send a message via MSN to David Galdo Send a message via Yahoo to David Galdo
Default

Fav0re:: Sweet ride!

Corally:: Like the new Jari car too!
__________________
Hot Bodies | HPI Racing | HPI TV | Speedzone USA | Team Epic | Trinity | TRC
V-Dezign 4.0
David Galdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 09:48 AM   #29340
Tech Master
 
wingman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tewkesbury, UK via Plymouth, UK.
Posts: 1,259
Default

Hi Tyler, new car looks sweet! It actually looks similar to a car that I have been working on myself over the last couple of months. I noticed that the chassis, between the 2 t-bar holes, has had holes countersunk into it. I'm assuming that is to clear the screw heads on the t-bar pivots. On my car, I had the material underneath the the t-bar removed so the hole assembly sits lower into the chassis (reducing the roll centre I think!). To get the stiffness back, the cross brace extends forwards from the rear pivot to the front pivot and then onto a alu' mounting block for the shock and roll over mast. The cross brace is bolted in place in 5 positions so hopefully retains the overall stiffness even though a fair amount of material is missing from the centre of the chassis! I also had to place spacers between the pivots and the crossbrace so that the top part of the pivots clear the brace. After all that, I then machined some standoffs to the correct height and bolted them onto the chassis. The whole back end now sits really low. I also have a new top plate and crossbrace being made at the moment (fwww.fibrelyte.co.uk) which also uses a single damper tube or associated shock. There is also a new crossbrace that goes with the new top plate. Let us know how your new cars goes mate and I'll do the same! Cheers, Chris.
wingman2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:17 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0