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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 08-19-2008, 01:03 PM   #29191
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Is the stock front end that comes with the bmi db12r car ok for carpet racing?
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:07 PM   #29192
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Is the stock front end that comes with the bmi db12r car ok for carpet racing?
Yes, very much so.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:03 PM   #29193
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Originally Posted by CREWMAN View Post
i know what track you are talking about (mushroom bowl). I have never ran there but guys at my track who have ran there say that they allow you to use gojo hand cleaner with no pumice. they said that the gojo work very well, going by that i run jaco yellows in the rear and lilac up front. If i need more steering use double pinks up front.
Man that was a great guess!!! yea i run at the bowl but i havn't seen any one using gojo anymore... Most people just take a scotch brite after every and scuff the tires. But thanks a lot for the help i was way off i was going to get pink rears and purple fronts. thanks again
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:37 PM   #29194
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Originally Posted by beta bob View Post
Man that was a great guess!!! yea i run at the bowl but i havn't seen any one using gojo anymore... Most people just take a scotch brite after every and scuff the tires. But thanks a lot for the help i was way off i was going to get pink rears and purple fronts. thanks again
no problem
I use to run purple fronts but i the steering would fade as the race went on. pink rears have the same shore rating as the yellow rears but the yellows seem to be the common rear for stock racing.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:40 PM   #29195
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Originally Posted by MUDVAYNE View Post
I second that statement. All I have been hearing from the Lipo guys is that this technology is going to save the hobby, when in fact lipo is more dangerous than NiMH. I have only seen two different packs vent and I have been racing competively for close to five years now. I have also heard about many more lipo packs melting down, exploding etc. There is nothing wrong with the four cell rule as it stands now. Just like I have quoted above from Cypress, the NiMH cells are very reliable and very low maintance. Also, you get much more voltage from a four cell NiMH battery pack than you will a Lipo.
There also has been discussion about putting a voltage regulator in a 7.4 Lipo pack. Anyone want to start a pool as to who will be the first to fool around with this "regulator or resistor" to get slightly more voltage supplied from the pack?
Interesting. You compare how many nimh's you've seen vent versus how many lipos you've heard gone up, not that you saw in person. Great comparison!!

But seriously, I don't think Lipo is going to save the hobby. It's just going to provide a new option that is cheaper and easier to maintain then nimh's. I've seen both go up, and 9 times out of 10 it's user error. Also, it depends on the type of cell for both cases. I've had an orion cell puff up, but not catch on fire or anything (apparently running one in a touring car on a 100 degree day with a 3.5 isn't good). Meanwhile, I've had IB cells vent and witnessed one IB pack blow up. Likewise, I've seen a maxamps pack melt a car due to it not being charged in a lipo sack. EP and EG cells seem to be more reliable.

In both cases, I think we read and see about the extreme cases. I don't think there were any incidents at ROAR nationals this past weekend and plenty of drivers were using both technologies.

Paul
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:52 PM   #29196
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For heavens sake give it a rest - we are all heartily sick of people who have seen this, seen that, know this, know that. These are the only verifiable facts...

When a LiPo fails it fails catastrophically - heat runaway leading to fire.
When an MiMh fails, it fails benignly - heat and energy dissipation leading to inert state.
LiPo and NiMh are no longer the future - the patented A123 battery structure is.

Whatever you use, just use it. Stop trying to set one part of RC against the other. It isn't big and it isn't clever. Do you want RC to be losing people because all you can find to say is negative to one technology or another?
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Old 08-20-2008, 12:09 AM   #29197
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I've seen the A123 cells in an 8th buggy, and honestly it was quite unimpressive. It would not come close to finishing our 20min main and it had an unimpressive top speed and acceleration. The users lipo was MUCH better, and ran about 18 minutes vs the 4-5 of the A123 cells. They were MUCH too large as well compared to the lipo.
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Old 08-20-2008, 12:59 AM   #29198
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Originally Posted by rezenclowd3 View Post
I've seen the A123 cells in an 8th buggy, and honestly it was quite unimpressive. It would not come close to finishing our 20min main and it had an unimpressive top speed and acceleration. The users lipo was MUCH better, and ran about 18 minutes vs the 4-5 of the A123 cells. They were MUCH too large as well compared to the lipo.
A123 sucks in the performance end... It is all about the safety of it...
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Old 08-20-2008, 06:50 AM   #29199
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Not to sound like a smart ass or show anyone up or anyhting like that but i thought this was a 1/12th thread not a lipo vs. nimh vs. a123. there are probably threads like that all over so go to them and have your little debate.
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Old 08-20-2008, 06:58 AM   #29200
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Originally Posted by beta bob View Post
Not to sound like a smart ass or show anyone up or anyhting like that but i thought this was a 1/12th thread not a lipo vs. nimh vs. a123. there are probably threads like that all over so go to them and have your little debate.
Bob, we are talking about Lipo vs. NiMH IN 12th scales. Besides, in my opinion, NiMH are still way safer and give you the best performance.
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Old 08-20-2008, 07:41 AM   #29201
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how can you guys do that if it hasn't even happened yet. Except for the fact that smc is coming out with one but it still hasn't happened and i heard to run one of those you have to have a reciever pack to be able to run a servo. and i got that out of that smc thread. but what ever im sticking with nimh
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:14 AM   #29202
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Who cares about lipo in 12th,its not like I have ever even seen one in a 12th scale at the track.From what I read they seem like forever away ,and just way to comlplicated for 12th scale being 3.7,and the electronics dilemna??Im concentrating on racing my nimh,not questionable new tech..Thats my 2 cents,later,Tim.
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:44 AM   #29203
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Nimh's don't just vent and go inert. They can also embed themselves in 2x4s as witnessed at the 07 Oval Carpet Nats. (yes this was caused by user error)

I'm just sick of people comparing what they've seen at their track in the case of Nimh's versus what they read about on the net about Lipos.

Anyways, what rear pod for the 12L4 would be a good upgrade to allow easier use of brushless motors?

Thanks,
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:41 PM   #29204
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Originally Posted by rezenclowd3 View Post
I've seen the A123 cells in an 8th buggy, and honestly it was quite unimpressive. It would not come close to finishing our 20min main and it had an unimpressive top speed and acceleration. The users lipo was MUCH better, and ran about 18 minutes vs the 4-5 of the A123 cells. They were MUCH too large as well compared to the lipo.
That's because they are 2 to 3 years away from being right for RC. Two to three years ago, you'd have said the same about LiPo. comparing the here and now with the future is futile.

A123 are concentrating on electric (full-size) cars, and ahve more money being given to them by GM, Toyota, Honda and Ford than they have time to do the development. Also, Toshiba, Sony and Apple are wanting them for computers. We (RC) come way down the order, that's why we have to wait. But, when they come, LiPo will be yesterday's news.

And meanwhile, back in the thread, LiPo won't make inroads to 12th anytime soon. Avoid IBs, and the NiMh cell is back where it was three years ago - simple to use, not failing, and providing enough power to run any motor you can get in the car for eight minutes. Like the other posters above, I'm sticking with what works for 12th. If you're desperate to run LiPo, you'll have to look elsewhere, because LiPo in 12th is complex and too light, so it lacks traction and handling.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:12 PM   #29205
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Anyways, what rear pod for the 12L4 would be a good upgrade to allow easier use of brushless motors?

Thanks,
Paul
Once the Team Kwik car comes out The rear pod should be able to bolt onto a L4 no problem. The Kwik car has the nicest pod I have seen to date.
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