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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:02 PM   #29026
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The idea of using a 2 cell lipo with a smaller 380 motor sounds interesting. I might give that a try this winter.
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #29027
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That is all nice but all major races are still raced with 4 cell batteries so in my opinion testing and trying with LiPO cells is pretty useless in a 12th scale. I know that 12th scale used to run with 6 cells but then again, back in the the days we ran 10th scale off road with 7cells!!!. Then it went back to 6 cells and now 5 so that is not an argument...

12th scale is running on 4 cells and that is not compatible with any LiPO, same thing in 10th scale TC 5cell. There is no LiPO that compares to that. So until the industry brings out a good alternative we just have to stick to the regulated cells.

Off coarse, for training & recreational purposes you can do whatever you want...

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:50 PM   #29028
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Joost--I don't necessarily disagree with you, for racing NOW 4-cell NiMH is the only option.

My interest in LiPo and smaller brushless systems is to start experimenting toward a new spec for 1/12...to see what lies on the other side of the mountain. I strongly believe that sooner or later sub-C batteries won't be as readily available as they have been. The problem is that if no one has started trying things out and gotten a good idea of what can and can't work that we'll be backed into a corner and have to accept poorly thought-out alternatives and do so on an accelerated time frame.

Who knows...if 2s LiPo w/ low kv brushless works pretty well maybe it can be added somewhere along the line as a spec in parallel with the existing specs. Then the market can decide what it prefers.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:16 PM   #29029
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I agree with both of you but here is why I would like to try it.

There is not much 1/12th around here anymore. Everyone runs TC. I like to run a little 1/12th on a budget over the winter to keep my driving sharp for summer nitro racing. That usually means buying new batteries every winter in the hopes of getting to race competitively but it never happens and now my nice new batteries I spent all that money on only get used for three or four practice days.

If all I can do is practice anyway, why not try out something different with a battery that hopefully will still be good after sitting all summer long.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:18 PM   #29030
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Joost...your earlier argument was that LiPo would not fit...I was just pointing out that it will. With just about every other class going to LiPo now, sooner or later 1/12th is going to be forced to find an alternative to NiXX based sub C cells. It's much better to be doing experimentation now to be ready in the future. Think of what a LiPo and 380 sized spec for 1/12th could do to for a future 1/12th class...lighter cars, less broken parts, smaller rear pod, more chassis space, lower rear pod, easier to fit bodies, and the list goes on. A lot of changes will have to be made to eventualy get there but it is a possibility. I think with the lighter car weight softer tire compounds will have to be used all around they what we use today.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #29031
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I too didn't think it would work until I heard about the 380 motors, that has me interested.
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Old 07-20-2008, 06:08 PM   #29032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Isn't that great news!! Is the Novak Munchkin Motor (or whatever they call it) sensored or sensorless?


What sort of adapter are these guys using to mount the motor into the chassis?
I checked the Novak site and its advertised as sensored just like the GTB and current motors except smaller. This all brings another question to my mind; I'm wondering how well these would hold up to this type of abuse. I dont have an 1/18 around to weigh but I'm wondering if there is a substancial weight difference.
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Old 07-20-2008, 06:08 PM   #29033
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We'll never know how it works until we start doing it. I run a 7.4v lipo in my rock crawler that would fit inside a pack of smokes. The batteries are out there to fit. To really work, though, I think a car would have to be engineered to make it work. I would love to see it happen. 12th scale is built on a bunch of tradition and thick skulls, so plan on going to war.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:07 PM   #29034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris moore View Post
I checked the Novak site and its advertised as sensored just like the GTB and current motors except smaller. This all brings another question to my mind; I'm wondering how well these would hold up to this type of abuse. I dont have an 1/18 around to weigh but I'm wondering if there is a substancial weight difference.
Xray say their M18 pro weighs 440g (15.5oz) ready to run.

For instance if the Trakpower saddle li-po was used with the novak mongoose in a 1/12th:

EP4600 pack is about 284g & Novak brushless motor is 187g
Trakpower saddle is 126g & Novak mongoose motor is 72g

So you already save 273g (8.1oz) by using that setup. So I don't think weight wouldn't be an issue.

This is assuming a chassis is made to fit the trakpower saddle li-po of course
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:28 PM   #29035
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Hell, LiPo's are so light why bother running them saddle? Put the pack on one side and the esc and receiver on the other. If need be add just a bit of weight where needed to balance out the car and rock and roll.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:01 PM   #29036
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Hell, LiPo's are so light why bother running them saddle? Put the pack on one side and the esc and receiver on the other. If need be add just a bit of weight where needed to balance out the car and rock and roll.
Yeah why not, could be some very interesting designs for this
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:33 PM   #29037
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A 12th car relies on the weight of the 4-cell pack to make it handle. If you go to LiPo and 380BL, the car's won't handle anything like as well. It will require a change of chassis design, a change of tyres, and the development of the 380 motor to get back to where we are today.

If you're worried about not getting Sub-C cells, you should also be worried about not getting the appropriate 380 motors - that's an even smaller market!!

The battery maintenance issue is now a red herring. EnerG cells are back where we used to be - charge, race, store, charge, race, store... - so the case for LiPo diminishes in 12th, especially as it doesn't suit the class for either weight or voltage. And LiPo is already a problem, with drivers over-charging to get more speed, turning packs into short-life specials. Once IFMAR allow LiPo, the battery wars will start and this gentle, lo-cost, long-life pack will get to be none of those things!!

I hope that LiPo never gets anywhere near 12th until the cells in development, that give us the voltage and weight we need, are available.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:02 AM   #29038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
A 12th car relies on the weight of the 4-cell pack to make it handle. If you go to LiPo and 380BL, the car's won't handle anything like as well. It will require a change of chassis design, a change of tyres, and the development of the 380 motor to get back to where we are today.

If you're worried about not getting Sub-C cells, you should also be worried about not getting the appropriate 380 motors - that's an even smaller market!!

The battery maintenance issue is now a red herring. EnerG cells are back where we used to be - charge, race, store, charge, race, store... - so the case for LiPo diminishes in 12th, especially as it doesn't suit the class for either weight or voltage. And LiPo is already a problem, with drivers over-charging to get more speed, turning packs into short-life specials. Once IFMAR allow LiPo, the battery wars will start and this gentle, lo-cost, long-life pack will get to be none of those things!!

I hope that LiPo never gets anywhere near 12th until the cells in development, that give us the voltage and weight we need, are available.
Quite a few pretty broad statements here. I take it you've tried this? I guess I'll find out for myself what "will" and what "won't". And with the proper motor power the fact the voltage is different is moot. I would be the last to propose running them together.

Oh, and if weight is the only problem, there's a cure for that. I've got enough lead flashing to double the weight of my entire 1/12 chassis, so if need be I can add weight where I want it. I'm just not a believer in "can't"--I think there are too many advantages to be had with lighter overall weight to not experiment a bit with it.

And as far as "overcharging"...there is already a rule in place to prevent that wit LiPos. You show up at the line with a battery showing 8.45v or more "you get to go home for the day, Mr. DQ". If a track is choosing not to enforce the rule (with a $2.99 on sale at Harbor Freight digital volt-ohm meter) that's not a problem with technology, that's a problem with people.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:25 AM   #29039
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I know someone that strapped 2 LRP 1800 Lipo's in his GenX, and I think he used a 13.5 motor to test if he could drive LIPO in a 12th scale.
The car's handling was very well and he had about the same power as a good 19T (I saw this myself).
The lower weight was not a problem at all....

I think the only mod he did to the car was raising the center shock somewhat to get clearence over the Lipo's.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:21 AM   #29040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Joost...your earlier argument was that LiPo would not fit...I was just pointing out that it will. With just about every other class going to LiPo now, sooner or later 1/12th is going to be forced to find an alternative to NiXX based sub C cells. It's much better to be doing experimentation now to be ready in the future. Think of what a LiPo and 380 sized spec for 1/12th could do to for a future 1/12th class...lighter cars, less broken parts, smaller rear pod, more chassis space, lower rear pod, easier to fit bodies, and the list goes on. A lot of changes will have to be made to eventualy get there but it is a possibility. I think with the lighter car weight softer tire compounds will have to be used all around they what we use today.
Well, you have got a point there off coarse. Sure it will fit but you would have to modify the chassis because almost all current 12th scale chassis are made for 4 cells. But then again, this is a modelling hobby so if you want it to fit it will. You are right about that.

Out here in Europe we race with EFRA rules and they still say we have to use 4 cells which is great as it is in my opinion. So call me a simple sheep but if EFRA says that I have to use 4 cells, then I will. If there are changes being made in the rules we will hear about it and then we will adapt to that. I like to race with 12th scale cars and I also see this class as my major class to race. In the summer I keep my skillz up with my custom made Pro10 and in the winter season I really go at it with the 12th scale.

I hear a lot of guys here saying that LiPO is the way to go but out here we also hear a lot of problems with LiPO cells so I think that every kind of power supply has its own failures...

For 12th scale racing I will stick to the rules that EFRA give me...

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