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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 06-26-2008, 02:23 AM   #28906
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
I agree, but as long as people can't seem to understand the logic as to why it will not happen, or refuse to use the SEARCH feature of this site to see that it has been covered about bagillion times.... that corpse will continue to be flogged.
Agreed, but as a PETA member I'd like to substitute a fat RC guy for the horse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bosley View Post
We are just barely starting to run 12th scale outdoors here in Houston and 4 cell, 17.5t brushless seems to be the choice. I've often wondered about 7.4v lipo and 21.5t though since the 17.5 is basically slower than a stock motor, a 21.5 has to be really slow.
For most racers the 17.5 is not slower than a 27t. Once you figure out that you have to gear it to the moon you will see that it is pretty close, or faster for most people. At National events where the Motor Dudes are doing their magic, then 27t has (up until now) been faster. Try BL rollouts in the neighborhood of 80 to 90 and see what you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC12 View Post
Hello, I just got an RC12L3 and would like to know what servo is the best for it? Also, is there any online shop that sells parts for the 12L3? Any suggestion on what foam tires to use on an asphalt (Medium) bite track? How about body for it? TIA
Servos: Futaba 9602, 9650, JR 3550, 3650, KO 949, 951. The new 951 is the strongest and fastest servo available.

I like Stormer for online sales

Pink rears and Purple fronts. Magenta fronts if you need more steering.
My favorite body is the Parma Speed 8 HD, or Speed 8 for stock or higher bite tracks.
There is also the Protoform Speed 12 and Speed 12b . Speed 12b is for stock or high bite tracks.

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Old 06-26-2008, 03:32 AM   #28907
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
12th scalers everywhere would jump at the idea of a 4.8v lipo. Chemically it will not happen with that battery technology. We need a different technology that has the same attributes except in the 4.8v nominal range in order to supplant Nimh. If there were a better technology than what we currently have that would keep the voltages the same, I am sure that ALMOST everyone would be all for the change.

I have a lipo for sedan and know well of its attributes. It would be great to have this in 4.8v flavor.
You seem to be another of those people who will not, or cannot, understand that the problem with LiPo is weight - not enough of it for a 12th car. So many people have tried to make a LiPo 12th car and everyone has failed. The voltage is largely irrelevant.

OD - pass me the whip and the fat RC guy...
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:14 AM   #28908
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Get the Speedmerchant Rev5! The front end is great. If you don't get a Rev5 seriously consider getting one of the other link-based cars (CRC Gen-X ... not sure about 12R5 yet).

The BMI DB12R is probably great on asphalt (I've been running my Rev5) but the car just doesn't have the proper corner speed on tight carpet tracks. The BMI also is a pain in the arse to install/remove brushless motors.
I dont normally like to say anything but that is all setup related problems. We managed to beat every link car at snowbirds and had no issues with cornerspeed that all other link cars seemed to be having. If your setup isnt correct, your car will not work correctly. If your local track is a speedmerchant,CRC or whatever track, that will be the obvious choice of car to get. To say things like what you stated can push someone to buy something for the wrong reasons. I know 360 is a speedmerchant based track and thats cool. Bruce is a great guy and i would never have a bad thing to say about him. I would like to just keep things clear. Our car was good enough to take 2nd at the snowbirds with an extremely talented field. CRC and SpeedMerchant work great as do all the T bar cars. No need to bash any one because we all have more than capable cars.
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:16 AM   #28909
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
My speed passion, hacker and novak's dont fit. I needed to remove the left pod plate every time.
We made the pod fit brushless as best as possible without sacrificing strength. SP motors are tough to get in but LRP and novak drop right in. Being that you pretty much have no need to remove the motor, I couldnt see a point in making the pod weak and hogging out the left pod
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:57 AM   #28910
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Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
I dont normally like to say anything but that is all setup related problems. We managed to beat every link car at snowbirds and had no issues with cornerspeed that all other link cars seemed to be having. If your setup isnt correct, your car will not work correctly. If your local track is a speedmerchant,CRC or whatever track, that will be the obvious choice of car to get. To say things like what you stated can push someone to buy something for the wrong reasons. I know 360 is a speedmerchant based track and thats cool. Bruce is a great guy and i would never have a bad thing to say about him. I would like to just keep things clear. Our car was good enough to take 2nd at the snowbirds with an extremely talented field. CRC and SpeedMerchant work great as do all the T bar cars. No need to bash any one because we all have more than capable cars.
Jason - on one is bashing here, just expressing opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I know I've spoken to you in the past looking for help and you were very helpful. Link cars appear to be more consistent in the hands of regular racers. They take a hit better than t-bar cars as most people I know hit the occasional wall.
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:19 AM   #28911
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its personal preference bottom line...

I hate spring cars... to me t-bars are much easier to drive... (again my personal pref.)

link cars have come a long way since the start they are much more stable now with the lower roll center pivots now, but I still see them as steer from the rear cars... t-bar cars steer from the front.

t-bars in general at least for me always have a more in control feel... sometimes a little on the tight side. a lot of times a good turning t-bar car is one that just starts to tip in the corners...

link cars don't have to generate that much steering in the front to rotate...

my $.02
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:47 AM   #28912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
the car just doesn't have the proper corner speed on tight carpet tracks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
My speed passion, hacker and novak's dont fit. I needed to remove the left pod plate every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Jason - on one is bashing here, just expressing opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I know I've spoken to you in the past looking for help and you were very helpful.
While your comment re: the DB12R on asphalt was presented as an opinion ("...probably...") your comment regarding corner speed on carpet and relative motor fit were not--they were clearly stated as fact ("...doesn't have the proper corner speed...don't fit...needed to..."). A "fact", at least re: the Novak motor fitting, that is demonstrably untrue because I manage to get mine in and out without removing anything (to J's point, a thankfully rare task). An opinion would have read something on the order of "getting Novak motors in and out of my XXX chassis without disassembling something seemed to be outside my skill set. ymmv." Or "My relative competence did not allow me to get the corner speed where I wanted it on carpet..." Then again, maybe Novak made you a special motor that really didn't fit...in which case please accept my appology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Link cars appear to be more consistent in the hands of regular racers. They take a hit better than t-bar cars as most people I know hit the occasional wall.
And in my experience the DB12R (not a T-bar car, not a link car...I call it "the missing link") takes a hit better than the link cars. I've yet to see a link car (I've had a lot of 'em, and seen a lot more) take much of a shot and not be tweaked to some degree or another. Not to say it has never happened...I was just never there to see it. I HAVE, however, seen a few DB12Rs take a couple pretty hefty wall shots and finish the heat driving straight and true. And, again in my experience, getting a link car dialed-in is usually a more involved process--more stuff at the back to spend time fiddling with to get things just so.

And, as stated before, when properly set up ANY of these chassis are a formidable weapon in the hands of a competent driver. There isn't a "clinker" in the bunch.

Speaking of which, I should give a shout-out to a few EXCELLENT cars from smaller manufacturers. The Slapmaster MS cars, the PRCs (Powell Racing Components) and OD-12 are all worthy of consideration. I've seen all three run VERY fast. In fact I've seen the Slapmaster run EXTREMELY fast.
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Old 06-26-2008, 07:49 AM   #28913
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Jason - on one is bashing here, just expressing opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I know I've spoken to you in the past looking for help and you were very helpful. Link cars appear to be more consistent in the hands of regular racers. They take a hit better than t-bar cars as most people I know hit the occasional wall.
Thats fine. I try to help anyone to the best of my ability. We made our car pretty much bulletproof with the only accurate center pivot on the market. We decided not to go with the standard centerlink to keep the car from tweaking badly after a hit. Our car has grown to be known as the most durable 1/12th. Link cars work excellent. I, personally always had tweak problems with them.
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:23 AM   #28914
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
You seem to be another of those people who will not, or cannot, understand that the problem with LiPo is weight - not enough of it for a 12th car. So many people have tried to make a LiPo 12th car and everyone has failed. The voltage is largely irrelevant.

OD - pass me the whip and the fat RC guy...
No. I well know the weight issue, didn't think it needed to be mentioned.

How many different lipo 12th cars have been attempted? I only know of 2 that were being worked on (within the confines of this thread...).
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Old 06-26-2008, 09:44 AM   #28915
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Slapmaster Tools occasionally fools around with things from time to time, but lately, time is missing! I have been working on a lipo 12 that is using 18th scale electronics and a 1550mah bat that weighs in about 14.5ou. Some guys have followed that lead and tried it outdoors and have deemed it way too light and I suspect they are right. In order to build a lipo 12 for the masses, it is going to have to work on all surfaces to be a financial success.

If thought about, 7.4v is likely going to be used unless we get the electronics guys to build esc, servos and rx to operate on 3v+/-. With 7.4v, 17.5 & 21.5 b/l motors will likely be the new stock and mod for 12th scale. Next issue the mah rating the lipo needs and how it will fit in the car. An 3200mah Orion Carbon is roughtly 5.4" long. That would have to sit sideways through the car. Any link style car would not have room and a t-bar car would have to elevate the battery above the t-bar. A guy could saddle pack a 4 x 1500's to create a square brick.

Ah.... see what happened here.... I got passed the whip and put it in action and didn't even realize the fat guy was crying "uncle".
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:56 PM   #28916
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I still think it can work but lighter cars will need softer tires all around to work as well...but we can only get so soft for the fronts.
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:17 PM   #28917
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....Ah.... see what happened here.... I got passed the whip and put it in action and didn't even realize the fat guy was crying "uncle".
Whip it good!
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:24 PM   #28918
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
No. I well know the weight issue, didn't think it needed to be mentioned.

How many different lipo 12th cars have been attempted? I only know of 2 that were being worked on (within the confines of this thread...).
You know of only two, perhaps those of us telling you that the issue is weight might know of more? And, perhaps, that means we are answering your question correctly by saying that LiPo has no current future in 12th until it solves the weight and size issues?

Just because a technology works in one area, does not mean it works in every area. LiPo is a technology that works replacing NiMh as a power source. However, from a handling point of view it doesn't work! In Off-Road, everyone over here is having to add weight to the car to retain handling. In TC, they are also adding weight to make it work.

I suppose we are a bit short with some of these replies, so apologies. However, when we tell people it won't work, we get the never-ending replies telling us that LiPo is the future and it must work. Please accept that LiPo as a technology is not the future for pan cars.
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Old 06-26-2008, 02:25 PM   #28919
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As much as I'd like to think that LiPo is getting closer for 12th it's not. Until we have a LiPo pack that can run with the 4 cell NiMh stuff head to head just like 6 cell it just doesn't make sense. I can't see a good way to mix LiPo with 4 cell when the voltage is so different.

I think that if we decide to go with LiPo it's got to happen for the entire class. We can't mix these things and we don't need another class out there.

My personal feeling is that we need to start with a capacity limit (frozen for a set time with the battery manufacturers involved) and run 6 cell voltage. Also, I think we need a standard cell size that will fit saddle and inline cars.

By limiting the capacity to say 2000 mAh we will limit the speed of the cars. You'll have to gear to finish the race and use strategy to get to the end just like we did in the old days. No more running flat out for 8 minutes and more driving and strategy will make the class more interesting. The beauty of limiting the capacity is that LiPo runtime is fairly stable so there isn't as much difference between the "big names" and the average joe.

Just my thaughts.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:13 PM   #28920
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At some point (maybe soon and maybe not) somebody may come forth with a lipo powered 1/12th scale solution that's fast and that handles great. If and when that happens, then it will be time to discuss if or how to accommodate such a ride within the racing rules. But that has yet to happen. On the upside, at this time there's more great 1/12th scale cars than ever to choose from and the class does seem to be growing and building some momentum and interest. I choose to celebrate that this is happening and to welcome the new participants to the class. For me, I'll stick with my CRC car(s) because they work great, the quality is there, and the support is unmatched. But I enjoy and appreciate all other designs. The main thing is that we get together and have good solid competitive racing at a sensible cost. And right now, 1/12th scale is better than ever with respect to affordability, ease of operation, and available choices. Long live the little cars! Let's race.
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