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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 05-14-2008, 04:06 PM   #28696
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I've actually run LiPo in 12th and I think that LiPo just plain isn't there yet.

The small cells that you need to run a t-bar car can't handle the current. With almost any pack, you'll have less capacity running 2 cell voltage than a good 4600 pack.

I've run single cell voltage (3.7v) with a 13.5 in 12th without a receiver pack. It worked just fine for me but it might be an issue with hotter motors. Receiver packs aren't an issue and not that expensive. I was running a Spektrum system.

2 cell voltage is too fast especially for mod. a 21.5 might work but why should we buy another motor just for the privelage of running LiPo? Think there's problems now with mixing two motors in stock, wait until we try mixing in a 3rd with new batteries on top of that.

The car handled like crap with LiPo by the way. Had to add almost all of the weight back in just to make the car work. At the moment, it's more trouble than it's worth.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:20 PM   #28697
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My Opinion about any changes to Batteries in 1:12

The goal to replacing the powersource if needed to replace with a power source as similar as the one in current use.

I belive the Li-Ion batteries with the Iron-Phosphate chemisty are about as close to a match that be made with current technologies.

This is why I think LiFEPO4 cells are a good replacement.

1.The cells are more durable and safer that NiMH or LiPO.
2. Most electronic in our cars need a 5V powersource, Going to 3.7V would
require a RX battery(Those days are over, Thankyou BEC)
3. Since the only logical choices are LiPO or LiFePO4 in 2S I would rather choose the lesser of the voltages, in this case 6V vs 7.4V

Now to address the motor issues with 1:12
There are 21.5 Motors, Novak has them and Tekin is rumored to be making them. Since ROAR has 21.5 motor classes in Oval, it would seem to be wise to adpot that powerplant also. In oval they run 21.5 with LiPO but restrict the capacity to 3200. The limited capacity lets the votlage drop over the 4min race, but the speeds are still comparable or faster than 4-cell 13.5 oval.

In either case, with a battery change, I am in favor of using a 21.5 Motor if needed for the stock class but would perfer 17.5. With the battery change I would like the rules set a year in advance before the offical switch date. The touring cars are a mess right now because when the packs first came out they were clones for NiMH for fitment. Then some wise-crack decided to make the bricks taller increasing the capacity and performance. So just about any racer who wants to be competitive must but the freaking largest capacity pack and mill and hack on their chassis to fit the battery. More capacity = higher average votlage during a race.

A simple rule for any new battery for 1:12 could be Sub-C formfactor or or total Battery case of 45mm x 23mm x 92mm. This would first limit the possible capacity and second allow the cars of today to be compatible with the batteries of tommorow. Limiting the capacity is a good way of bringing back "battery-management" during a race. Its been years since I dumpped, and I kinda miss "slower is faster" driving.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:53 PM   #28698
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What is the weight difference between your LiFePoo cells and a standard 4600 NiMH pack?
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:25 PM   #28699
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Why does everyone want to change the 12th Rules for batteries and motors? It's a stable class undergoing a revival. Just look at TC, and the LiPo/BL activists there bulldozing through their LiPo/BL demands and causing chaos in the class world-wide; that's been so successful - not!!

The vast majority of drivers like 10.5/13.5/17.5, for which four reasonable cells (and the new Orion SHO cells here in Europe save 40 grammes on weight as well as being good voltage!) give an easy eight minute race. It seems EnerG and Orion cells are robust and easy to use, and need no more maintenance than NiCad used to.

Play around with anything you like, but please, for the sake of the silent majority who love their 12th for its simplicity and low cost, leave it alone. The thought of being carved apart until we bleed by ill-thought changes not supported by all the Associations, like TC, is not a good one.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:31 PM   #28700
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Because eventually there will have to be a change. It is better to be planning for it now and be ready for it then get caught off balance later on. Heck it wasn't so long ago that people started running BL in 1/12th and there was some resistance to that change as well.
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:40 AM   #28701
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I agree with SlowerOne. Loads of other classes are suffering by far too many people trying to stick their own 2p worth in. 12th scale racing is really popular at the moment and I would hate to see people leaving this great class by others wanting to change rules to suit they're own needs. Yep, there has been a problem with cells over the last couple of seasons, companies have taken that on board and hopefully releasing new sub c cells that don't suffer from the same problems as before.

As for the question about speed with 6 cells vice 4, I personally think that a 4 cell car will out perform a 6 cell car due to lower weight. Certainly the only time you would gain a slight advantage would be top speed but with most tracks, you would not have a big enough straight to get much more top speed from your car.

I haved 12th cars with 6 cells and 4 and think that my car is plenty fast enough!


Cheers guys, Chris.
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:07 AM   #28702
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In the UK we race 4 cell exclusively, even with a 19T the cars are plenty fast, nimble and easy on maintainance. I'd never go back to 6 cell 27T..
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:15 AM   #28703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
Why does everyone want to change the 12th Rules for batteries and motors? It's a stable class undergoing a revival. Just look at TC, and the LiPo/BL activists there bulldozing through their LiPo/BL demands and causing chaos in the class world-wide; that's been so successful - not!!

The vast majority of drivers like 10.5/13.5/17.5, for which four reasonable cells (and the new Orion SHO cells here in Europe save 40 grammes on weight as well as being good voltage!) give an easy eight minute race. It seems EnerG and Orion cells are robust and easy to use, and need no more maintenance than NiCad used to.

Play around with anything you like, but please, for the sake of the silent majority who love their 12th for its simplicity and low cost, leave it alone. The thought of being carved apart until we bleed by ill-thought changes not supported by all the Associations, like TC, is not a good one.
I agree. I have been running the same 2 energy packs since the first batch reached US shores. I run each pack 2-3 time a day and have not seen any degredation in the packs since they were new. I am sure the voltages went up and the runtime went down a bit, but they make 8min easy with no drop in performance. I agree that bl is the way to go due to the low maitenance, but I don't see the lipo or whatever is any easier to care for then NIMH. I get to the track, discharge the packs to .9 then balance to .7 then charge. at the end of the day I put them away til next week.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:15 AM   #28704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Because eventually there will have to be a change. It is better to be planning for it now and be ready for it then get caught off balance later on. Heck it wasn't so long ago that people started running BL in 1/12th and there was some resistance to that change as well.
Sub-C is an international battery standard. There are far too many devices in other industries that use sub-c batteries for that technology to simply go away anytime in the near future. Not all industries adopt new battery technology as fast as people in RC are willing to grab at the next newest tech. I am not worried about having to find a new battery to run in a 12th scale car for the foreseeable future. Let's all stop worrying and start racing.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:21 AM   #28705
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you all have made very good points. being a race director, i never want to split classes up more than they already are. the only problem is that for those of us who do not have a place to run 1/12 during the summer, and for only 10 races in the winter, it is not worth the expense to most of us to have to buy 2 or three new packs a year to run 1/12 for 10 races.

i am not trying to start a war, nor am i trying to lobby for changes in the rules. i would just like to see an option for those of us who prefer to have one battery pack that you simply recharge and run. no discharge, no balence, no tray, no cycling.

i was one running the 17.5 1/12 at nats, and that 17.5 is in no way close to a tuned, brushed motor. i had to run 78 spur and 52 pinion to even get close, but the car then lacked the rip out of the corner, the reason the 21.5 works in oval is because the cars are always at speed. i think that combo will suffer in onroad.

thanks for listing to me complain, and i thank you for your honnest responses.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:23 AM   #28706
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Probably, its not yet the time of a new battery generation, but if you ever drove Lipo or FePO4, you will never want to use Nimhs anymore.
Maintenance is much easier than with Nimh. Just charge, drive, charge, drive, charge, drive... No more discharche.
I'm very happy with my FePO4...

-faster servo
-100gr less weight
-Just 1 Pack needed (After racing, the pack is as cold as before and can be charged in 15min
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:01 AM   #28707
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the discharge and tray thing is only if you want to get the last little bit of performance out of the battery. I can tell you I have driven Lipo in TC and have tried most of the popular brands. none compare in performance to nimh.

for 10 races, I would probably not even invest in the car. I am one that does like to run the current cars and also the current electronics. at least for the most part. I can't see purchasing a car, batts, and electronics and running it for 4 years. that would be the only way that it would be affordable. I run 1/12 almost every weekend and buying a new car once a year is out of the question. and I get 46-48 race weekends 2 major races and some local events

I was not at the nats, a couple of our guys were there. I know 9 of the 10 stock 1/12 ran brushless. the 17.5 is a slower motor then a good co27, but in an 8min race most are seeing that the 17.5 runs much better late in the race then a co27. I know locally that I was running a co27 and converted to a 17.5 the last 2 weekend. my fast laps were in the same ball park, but the co27 falls off about 6min into the race. I think you maybe gearing way to high. I am running a 80-81mm roll out and really on pace with our fast guys at the track
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:08 AM   #28708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Al-dente,

I have been testing some Sub-C Li-Ion cells and I am impressed with the cells.
If these cells were to make it mainstream today pretty much 1:12 would either have to drop race times to 5min and work the weight issue or go back to the 6-cell designs and no changes needed to the weight.


Don't worry about the 6-cell taking up too much space, the Tekin RS should be here soon. I hear they are the size of a Quantum2 ESC. I'll let everyone know on sunday when I see it installed.

The speeds are comparable to having a 19t setup for the first half of the race then tapper down to 27T at the end. If I were to be running a 2S3P (6-cell) pack the speeds would average higher the whole race. Right now I just run 5-min with the 2S2P pack on 13.5. A 17.5 should make it for 8min but I sold my 17.5.
May we talk about relevant 1/12 scale idea's please...

No offence Trailranger and others but in my opinion power drill batteries are for power drills. We don't want to get crazy and change ROAR rules becuase of an experiment either.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:23 AM   #28709
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Finally making the change over to brushless in my 12th scale. As far as brushless speed controllers, which do you guys prefer? I did have the Novak 4 cell GTB at one time but never did get to run it with a brushless motor in 12th scale cause everybody cried cause they didnt want to make the change themselves. Anyway I see the Tekin RS is very small which is a plus for 12th scale, but i would like to here you guys opinions on the ESC of choice and why.Thanks
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:27 AM   #28710
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thats funny.. does anyone race nicds anymore? i know the cheapo power tools use those. nimhs are in the mid level tools now and various lithium chemistry are in the high end ultra bad *ss construction tools. Because shaving a pound of battery weight makes "Joe Construction's" job easier on his back/arm/hand/whatever. Since just about day one (1) we've been running the same batts in our toy cars just with a shiny label.
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