R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-13-2008, 11:48 AM   #28681
Tech Master
 
timmay70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,702
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by al dente View Post
has there been any talk of battery companies coming out with a lipo equivilant to a 4 call pack for compeative 1/12 racing?
People talk about it all the time, no companies talk about it. Unless the voltage gets dropped to nominal 3.7v you will not see Lipo used in 12th scale. At that low voltage (single cell) most people will need to run a receiver pack. If that is the case, how much money are they saving, or how many headaches are they avoiding? Even with a 2s receiver pack, you will need a lipo regulator so that you don't kill your electronics.

With the reduced voltage comes reduced rpm, both directly related...

I like the idea of reduced maintenance in 12th scale, but not the smoke and mirrors kind of reduced maintenance. Receiver packs are just another thing to monitor all the time. This is also an issue for people that want to race World GT, as the rule set for that division is 4 cell NiMH.
__________________
Speed Merchant Rev7, Tekin, TQ Racing (wire), Team Tamale
RC Excitement - Buy where you race, support your local tracks.
ROAR #105242
timmay70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 12:22 PM   #28682
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Schiedam/Netherlands
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
I like the idea of reduced maintenance in 12th scale, but not the smoke and mirrors kind of reduced maintenance. Receiver packs are just another thing to monitor all the time. This is also an issue for people that want to race World GT, as the rule set for that division is 4 cell NiMH.

with the LRP Sphere 007 you can race 4 cell without receiver battery: no problems at all even with a 4.5 in a 12th scale car.
Frans H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 12:30 PM   #28683
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,157
Default

Frans the issue isn't with the ESC it's with the reciever. The Spektrum systems are very sensitive to voltage and if it drops to low it shuts off. At 3.7v the reciever won't even run so you'll need a reciever pack. Other recievers have issues with that low of a voltage as well but the worst is probably the Spektrum.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:30 PM   #28684
Tech Elite
 
al dente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,750
Default

timmay - another good point, i have a feeling that the solution lies in the world of li-ion. we will have to see what shakes loose in that feild.
__________________
Team CRC / Dumper's Speed Shop / Team Scream Racing / Black Art
RC America / FB/FX / Colorado On Road RC Club / Manutech
5280 Raceway (5280raceway.com) home of the MILE HIGH INDOOR CHAMPS April 20-23, 2017
al dente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 02:11 PM   #28685
HB
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 78
Default

Frans how hot will be the ECS after te race???? whit a 4.5???

my LRP getting 80C whit a 4.5
HB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 03:44 PM   #28686
Tech Fanatic
 
trailranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 946
Default

Al-dente,

I have been testing some Sub-C Li-Ion cells and I am impressed with the cells.
If these cells were to make it mainstream today pretty much 1:12 would either have to drop race times to 5min and work the weight issue or go back to the 6-cell designs and no changes needed to the weight.


Don't worry about the 6-cell taking up too much space, the Tekin RS should be here soon. I hear they are the size of a Quantum2 ESC. I'll let everyone know on sunday when I see it installed.

The speeds are comparable to having a 19t setup for the first half of the race then tapper down to 27T at the end. If I were to be running a 2S3P (6-cell) pack the speeds would average higher the whole race. Right now I just run 5-min with the 2S2P pack on 13.5. A 17.5 should make it for 8min but I sold my 17.5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
There it is, my 1900 6.4V LiFePO4 packs. Fits like a glove, but I have to add about 125g of balast since the cells weigh less.


trailranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 04:15 PM   #28687
Tech Master
 
sportpak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,314
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Al-dente,

I have been testing some Sub-C Li-Ion cells and I am impressed with the cells.
If these cells were to make it mainstream today pretty much 1:12 would either have to drop race times to 5min and work the weight issue or go back to the 6-cell designs and no changes needed to the weight.


Don't worry about the 6-cell taking up too much space, the Tekin RS should be here soon. I hear they are the size of a Quantum2 ESC. I'll let everyone know on sunday when I see it installed.

The speeds are comparable to having a 19t setup for the first half of the race then tapper down to 27T at the end. If I were to be running a 2S3P (6-cell) pack the speeds would average higher the whole race. Right now I just run 5-min with the 2S2P pack on 13.5. A 17.5 should make it for 8min but I sold my 17.5.
This is what I like to see. Too many people have ideas or opinions and are not willing to try it themselves. If something ever were to change in 1/12th scale, it's only going to start with someone trying something crazy. Keep up the good work man. I might try the 1250mah lipo I use for my crawler in a 12th scale with a 21.5 BL. We'll see how bad I rock the local boat with that.
__________________
-Tamiya TA05-R - Tamiya M05 - Summit Raceway Ft. Wayne, IN

www.summitrcraceway.com
sportpak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #28688
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2
Cool Need Turbo-Zeta info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
I pulled "development driving" duty on the programmable Zetas. In fact I've got one of the pre-production programmers still--no labeling and a universal box. For whatever reason both the Pro Zetas I have look to be production pieces so I must have turned the pre-production speed controller(s) back to Del.

The market drove Del crazy with those...he had the programmability feature LONG before anyone else (heck, even today Novak and LRP only offer 5 pre-set programs, the KO VFS is really only an updated interpretation of his system nearly 20 years later) and he had the lowest on-resistance FET's, substantially lower than the Novak and Tekin's of the day, but the market didn't beat a path to his door. The only programmable Zeta that had any real commercial success was the "Turbo Zeta" programmable that went in the old aluminum case--the tractor pullers and monster truckers loved 'em. He was a fascinating man, always had great ideas racing around in his head. The difference between he and most "idea-men" is that he was able to pin them down and make them real.

Scottrik
Good afternoon!
You are correct, us truckers LOVE the turbo-zeta. I have one but can't find the programming manual.
I just built an RC crawling rig and I'd love to put the zeta in it. I need to program in a more gentle acceleration curve though.
If they were still on the market, I'd buy two more. I wish some brainy mug would either get the plans and build them or reverse engineer one and reintroduce them to consumers. With the current rock crawling craze, the turbo-zeta ESC is the perfect controller, in my opinion.
Too bad PDI quit making them. They were 20+ years ahead of their time and nothing still comes close.
If anyone has a programming manual, can you post it or something? I would be willing to post the thing on my website if I'm not violating some copyright or anything.
Any info is appreciated!
Cheers,
Coda
Coda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:20 AM   #28689
Tech Master
 
maxepower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aliso Viejo, Calif.
Posts: 1,600
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Red face Newbie questions!

What weight oil do you use for carpet and for asphalt in the shock and the dampner tubes. Is it always the same whatever you use in one you use in all? CRC oil is super heavy, heavy and light but no viscosity rating. Again, do I use the same oil all the way around or seperate from the tubes to the center shock. Last, what pinion do you use as a start point for the 17.5 brushless?> What tire diameter do you use with that particular pinion size?
Thanks in advance
Max
maxepower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:38 AM   #28690
Tech Elite
 
theisgroup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,191
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxepower View Post
What weight oil do you use for carpet and for asphalt in the shock and the dampner tubes. Is it always the same whatever you use in one you use in all? CRC oil is super heavy, heavy and light but no viscosity rating. Again, do I use the same oil all the way around or seperate from the tubes to the center shock. Last, what pinion do you use as a start point for the 17.5 brushless?> What tire diameter do you use with that particular pinion size?
Thanks in advance
Max
center shock for carpet is usually 25 to 35 weight oil and side tubes, I am using the shur lube stuff and varies between #3 and #4. Pinion for a 17.5 is dependent on tire size. work aounr an 80mm role out. so with 46mm tires in the rear, a 42 pinion and 76 spur
__________________
yang lai

Team Tamale | Team Tekin | RCAmerica | Speedmerchant | Speedzone RC | EA Motorsports | Ko Propo USA | eXpress Motorsports | Parma/PSE
theisgroup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 09:45 AM   #28691
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
People talk about it all the time, no companies talk about it. Unless the voltage gets dropped to nominal 3.7v you will not see Lipo used in 12th scale. At that low voltage (single cell) most people will need to run a receiver pack. If that is the case, how much money are they saving, or how many headaches are they avoiding? Even with a 2s receiver pack, you will need a lipo regulator so that you don't kill your electronics.

With the reduced voltage comes reduced rpm, both directly related...

I like the idea of reduced maintenance in 12th scale, but not the smoke and mirrors kind of reduced maintenance. Receiver packs are just another thing to monitor all the time. This is also an issue for people that want to race World GT, as the rule set for that division is 4 cell NiMH.
Why drop the Voltage. I drive my GenX with a 2S1P FePO4 pack (6V, 2300mAh). Some guys at my local track drive their Corallys with Lipos (7.4V and 2000mAh with Brushless)
Using 2S Lipo with limiting the power over capacity is much better:
1. High Voltage = lower resistance
2. No reciever pack
3. Will ESC and Motors work at 3.7V? Not really
Der Dicke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 01:45 PM   #28692
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Frans the issue isn't with the ESC it's with the reciever. The Spektrum systems are very sensitive to voltage and if it drops to low it shuts off. At 3.7v the reciever won't even run so you'll need a reciever pack. Other recievers have issues with that low of a voltage as well but the worst is probably the Spektrum.
Running a 6.5 on 38mm/rev (sintered rotor) without a receiver pack, I haven't had a single glitch from my Spektrum. I notice that people who have issues with Spektrum also seem to run digital servos, so maybe this is another source of current drain? I use a 9602.

A receiver pack doesn't seem to be mandatory with BL, but it does help if you find the car slows up during the last couple of minutes, but the pack has charge left, or if you get any glitching from the Spektrum. HTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by HB View Post
Frans how hot will be the ECS after te race???? whit a 4.5???

my LRP getting 80C whit a 4.5
My LRP Sphere 2007 is hot to the touch after a race (see motor and gearing details above) - not measured it by it is slightly hotter than the motor, or a charged pack of cells. No issues though, it just runs and runs and... HTH
SlowerOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 03:21 PM   #28693
Tech Master
 
timmay70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,702
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Dicke View Post
Why drop the Voltage. I drive my GenX with a 2S1P FePO4 pack (6V, 2300mAh). Some guys at my local track drive their Corallys with Lipos (7.4V and 2000mAh with Brushless)
Using 2S Lipo with limiting the power over capacity is much better:
1. High Voltage = lower resistance
2. No reciever pack
3. Will ESC and Motors work at 3.7V? Not really
Because anything above 4.8v nominal is not legal at any sanctioned event. If it's legal at your track, have at it. It is not at mine and most that run 12th scale.

There have been people that have posted to this thread in the past that have sucessfully tested 1s lipo on brushless using receiver packs with good results, so it will work. Is it for the mainstream? Not until the rules that are followed nationally are changed.

Speeds with current accepted equipment (legalized motors) running at 6 volts would be ballistic, which is why years ago they knocked 2 cells out of the batteries we run (went from 7.2v nominal to 4.8v nominal).
__________________
Speed Merchant Rev7, Tekin, TQ Racing (wire), Team Tamale
RC Excitement - Buy where you race, support your local tracks.
ROAR #105242
timmay70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 03:22 PM   #28694
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 148
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default Brushless on 6 cell 1/12th question

I am thinking of trying my 1/12 (RC12L3 with 6 cells NiMH) with a 4600KV brushless. Anybody tried this? What kind of speed should I expect?
jawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 03:22 PM   #28695
Tech Master
 
timmay70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,702
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
Running a 6.5 on 38mm/rev (sintered rotor) without a receiver pack, I haven't had a single glitch from my Spektrum. I notice that people who have issues with Spektrum also seem to run digital servos, so maybe this is another source of current drain? I use a 9602.

A receiver pack doesn't seem to be mandatory with BL, but it does help if you find the car slows up during the last couple of minutes, but the pack has charge left, or if you get any glitching from the Spektrum. HTH

My LRP Sphere 2007 is hot to the touch after a race (see motor and gearing details above) - not measured it by it is slightly hotter than the motor, or a charged pack of cells. No issues though, it just runs and runs and... HTH
Are you running 4 cell or 1s lipo?
__________________
Speed Merchant Rev7, Tekin, TQ Racing (wire), Team Tamale
RC Excitement - Buy where you race, support your local tracks.
ROAR #105242
timmay70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (1 members and 2 guests)
Hugh Jazz
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:06 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0