R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-27-2007, 06:59 PM   #27766
P2
Tech Fanatic
 
P2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oahu, Hi
Posts: 865
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesArluck View Post
Good news and bad news for everyone looking for the HB shock.

Good news-Stormer has 61661 back in stock.
Bad news- Now they're out of the other two part numbers needed to make the shock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monti View Post
Bad news once again stormer is out of 61661, I just went to buy it and no luck!

-Monti-
Glad I got mine when they first came out and yes...they are well worth it
__________________
TopRacingUSA | Team EPIC | Thunder Power | OD Racing
P2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 07:27 PM   #27767
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monti View Post
Bad news once again stormer is out of 61661, I just went to buy it and no luck!

-Monti-
Welcome to the wonderful world of HPI/Hot Bodies parts availability
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 08:14 PM   #27768
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,813
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3jacob View Post
i just got a 12th scale and just wondering how to gear with a stock motor the car is a crc 3.1r
1.750-1.800 rollout is a good place to start.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 09:33 PM   #27769
Tech Master
 
CarlosG.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Falls City,TX
Posts: 1,145
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to CarlosG.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
For Asphalt run an AE olive spring and 30wt. oil with a .063" T-Bar. Start with the two outer lower pod mounting holes and add the center if you need more steering but ony if the track is super smooth. If its bumpy you can't run the center pod screw.
Don't say you can't. Better to say it is not advisable. Because I have done it on our track for over a year. P2 can attest to this. He is the one that told me not to ,but that was when I wanted to make my t-bars to last alittle longer than 3 qualifiers. Now I run one just for experiental purposes.
CarlosG. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 03:42 PM   #27770
Tech Master
 
CREWMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,539
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

I got a 13.5 novak Brushless system for christmas. What size spur do i want to run. I was looking at a 78 tooth but all they had it in was 48 pitch, does anypne make a 64 pitch. thanks
__________________
D&K HOBBIES!!!!
Losi 8ight-T 2.0 Race Roller/Losi 350/JR 9100 Servos/Spektrum DX3R
BMI Copperhead 12/Thunder Power Lipo/Futaba Servo/Express 17.5/Spektrum DX3R
CREWMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 04:03 PM   #27771
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,813
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

RW makes one
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 04:15 PM   #27772
Tech Master
 
Kropy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 1,763
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kropy
Default

You could also try PRS www.precisionracingsystems.com
__________________
Dale "Kropy" Kropaczewski
Kolors by Kropy
Postman, Save a spot on the stand for me
Kropy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 04:24 PM   #27773
Tech Master
 
CREWMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,539
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
RW makes one
where do i find them
__________________
D&K HOBBIES!!!!
Losi 8ight-T 2.0 Race Roller/Losi 350/JR 9100 Servos/Spektrum DX3R
BMI Copperhead 12/Thunder Power Lipo/Futaba Servo/Express 17.5/Spektrum DX3R
CREWMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 05:09 PM   #27774
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,122
Trader Rating: 238 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWMAN View Post
I got a 13.5 novak Brushless system for christmas. What size spur do i want to run. I was looking at a 78 tooth but all they had it in was 48 pitch, does anypne make a 64 pitch. thanks
!!!DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!

A 48-pitch gear and a 64-pitch gear of equal number of teeth (78 in this case) are never substitutes for each-other. A 78-tooth 48-p spur is roughly equivalent to a 104-tooth 64-p spur. Never the 'twain shall meet.
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 05:13 PM   #27775
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,122
Trader Rating: 238 (100%+)
Default

OK assembled Sages of 1/12...

Here's what's bugging me.

When siting components on the chassis we do so with balance devices to get the side-to-side balance equal. Pretty much every chassis has balance holes at the front lip and the rear edge of the rear pod.

MY quandry is that I really think we should be balancing the main chassis plate and everything on it IRRESPECTIVE of the rear pod and it's symetric attachments to the main plate. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that the rear pod should be as balanced as possible but my belief is that:

a) the rear pod balance is what it is, really, other than adding weight we have not say in it other than to change motor brand/type

b) regardless it's balance (or lack thereof) it is sitting flat supported by the straight axle we are limited to by rule.

I'm thinking I should be balancing the chassis main plate and it's components by itself since it is, essentially supported by the front wheels via the suspension there and the rear pivot. To do so I'll add a hole to my main chassis plate ahead of the pivot screw to accept my balance buttons.

Really I should be able to do this without the components on the centerline (shock, antenna/mount, battery brace) OR the symetric stuff (front suspension, cross-braces, side links, pivots, etc. If this works I should be able to take the main plate with the servo, servo-saver and linkage attached then balance it out with my receiver, esc and related components (caps, diodes, etc). THEN assemble the rest of the car around this.

If I'm clearly goofy please feel free to point this out but be sure to explain why. I've been puzzling on this for a while now and just can't see how I'm mistaken.

Thanks,

Scottrik
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 05:36 PM   #27776
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,813
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWMAN View Post
where do i find them
I may have them in stock. I can check tommorow. I believe they are on my website.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 05:40 PM   #27777
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,813
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

I just checked my website and i do have them in stock. You can locate them under the online store tab and then click on accessories
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 06:09 PM   #27778
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 241
Default

Quote:
Here's what's bugging me.

When siting components on the chassis we do so with balance devices to get the side-to-side balance equal. Pretty much every chassis has balance holes at the front lip and the rear edge of the rear pod.

MY quandry is that I really think we should be balancing the main chassis plate and everything on it IRRESPECTIVE of the rear pod and it's symetric attachments to the main plate. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that the rear pod should be as balanced as possible but my belief is that:

a) the rear pod balance is what it is, really, other than adding weight we have not say in it other than to change motor brand/type

b) regardless it's balance (or lack thereof) it is sitting flat supported by the straight axle we are limited to by rule.

I'm thinking I should be balancing the chassis main plate and it's components by itself since it is, essentially supported by the front wheels via the suspension there and the rear pivot. To do so I'll add a hole to my main chassis plate ahead of the pivot screw to accept my balance buttons.

Really I should be able to do this without the components on the centerline (shock, antenna/mount, battery brace) OR the symetric stuff (front suspension, cross-braces, side links, pivots, etc. If this works I should be able to take the main plate with the servo, servo-saver and linkage attached then balance it out with my receiver, esc and related components (caps, diodes, etc). THEN assemble the rest of the car around this.

If I'm clearly goofy please feel free to point this out but be sure to explain why. I've been puzzling on this for a while now and just can't see how I'm mistaken.
Hmmmm....great question. I don't have the answer, but one thing that strikes me is that IF the rear pod is unbalanced and there is no attempt to tune for that difference, then there would be differing side-to-side rear traction due to more weight on one side of the pod. I don't know if our traditional balancing and tweaking methods truly tune any difference out, but it seems to work.

Why not try it and see?
Larry Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 06:35 PM   #27779
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,813
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

I have messed around with pod balancing and it seems to really only effect the car with brushed motors. With the brushed motors, if the armature isnt on the centerline of the car, the gyro effect caused the car to pull to one side under acceleration. Brushless motors dont have the gyro effect of the brushed motors due to the much smaller diameter of a rotor. The gyro effect is almost nonexistant. Therefor, I found no benefit to centering a brushless motors mass.

The balance itself didnt make much of a difference. With the mass only being at most 3mm off center, It was not noticable after balancing a brushless motor in the pod. The pod is a fixed mass and the slightly offset lateral weight transfer is very hard to feel and to be honest, i couldnt. So to conclude my testing, The whole point of centering a motor is to make the car accelerate straight,not to balance the pod. It wasnt a benefit for use with brushless motors.

The chassis does need to be balanced. It is the only part of the car that rolls on a central pivot so it is neceasary to do this. When i balance my car with brushless gear i balance it with the motor installed and wires soldered because i use the wire as part of my balancing weight. With brushed motors i only balance the chassis area.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2007, 06:56 PM   #27780
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosG. View Post
Don't say you can't. Better to say it is not advisable. Because I have done it on our track for over a year. P2 can attest to this. He is the one that told me not to ,but that was when I wanted to make my t-bars to last alittle longer than 3 qualifiers. Now I run one just for experiental purposes.
Yeah the center screw will make the t-bars last longer but if the track is bumpy it really makes the rear end skip over the bumps and wander in bumpy corners.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:45 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0