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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 06-30-2007, 11:46 AM   #26056
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Originally Posted by racing_jason View Post
i know this has been posted before most likely but what tires do people find the best succes with on asphalt? It would be for the CRC carpet knife. Also what else whould i change for springs and the oil. thanks for the help in advanced!
Jason
I run on asphault as well, here is a good starting point for tires, all 1/12th scale weels and tires should work with the Carpet Knife, which version is it? You might have a hard time getting a Carpet Knife to hookup on asphault, not saying it isn't possible, but a T-Bar car would be better for Asphault

Front
CRC Magenta or Purple

Rear
CRC Pink
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Old 06-30-2007, 11:50 PM   #26057
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thanks for the tire ideas
does anyone have any spring rates that they have found that work well?
and its the 3.2 version
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:22 PM   #26058
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Hi all,

I'm looking for a decent explanation on how to set up a 1/12th scaler.
I've been driving it for about 2 years now and I still havent found the finesse of a good setup.
I mean, I've been driving touring for, lets say 10 years or so, with a touring car I understand almost everything there is to understand to make it work under all circumstances. But I found that touring car rules work upto a certain point.

I'm running a GenX, I'm wondering just exactly what the rear side springs do... is it like this: they are directly connected to the main chassis, the part where all of the weight shifting happens. So, with this in mind: if I put on harder springs here, it makes the chassis harder to twist sideways. When this is harder it automatically means that the front wheels get less weight on them as well -> less steering.
Damper tubes: since with the damper tubes you damp the effect of the weight change it means: harder damping, less twitchy car.
Front springs: With hard side springs there will be less weight change but still; softer front springs -> more steer because there's more weight to that wheel.

I've been searching for a decent guide on how to setup a 1/12 but its nowhere to be seen. And yes, I found all the guides that say: stiffen up the rear will give more steer. But never what which does exactly, and if you dont know this you have abslutely no clue on what to change if you want (in my case: more steer when at mid speed). Its just guessing and hoping that what you've done works.

I hope one of the pro's can give me some explanations on how a 1/12th works, I'm sure I'm not the only one thanking you for this.
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Old 07-01-2007, 02:52 PM   #26059
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Quante I hope this helps

1/12TH TIPS
FRONT WIDTH
NARROW - more agressive steering
WIDER - less agressive
FRONT SPRINGS
No preload for .020 springs. E-clip preload for .018 springs.
SOFTER – more steering but may dig or square up too hard. Softer springs have higher chance of collapsing.
STIFFER – less steering. Do not allow the front to dive as easily. Smoothes car out on corner entry
CAMBER
MORE NEGATIVE – decrease low speed and increase high speed steering. Outside tire will tend to flatten out at higher cornering speeds and have
better contact patch. 1 ½ to 2 ½ deg.
CASTER
LESS – easier the car will turn. But, lose straight line stability and lose exit speed (car will not cut into a turn as well).
REACTIVE –reduces caster at turn in and increases it at exit. However, can cause more tire scrub in a turn and slow you down if not set up
properly.
TOE
OUT – decrease straight line stability and can make car wander but it enhances turn-in, especially on initial “cut”
IN –increase straight line stability but make it more difficult to turn
SIDE SPRINGS
If car feels edgy, a Ό turn of preload can settle car down.
If car does not center up quick enough thru twisties, use stiffer spring.
SOFTER – more side bite for rear end but will be lazier transitioning back to center
STIFFER – less side bite. Faster transition, but can feel edgy.
SIDE TUBES / DAMPER DISK LUBE
Typically 10,000 ofna lube or Losi med hydra fluid
THICKER – increases front traction – adds steering. Slows transition and softens steering in fast sweepers. If car is double steering on power use
thicker oil to slow reaction time but if go to far you can see inside rear tire lift in tight corners.
THINNER – decreases front traction – decreases steering.
CENTER SHOCK
Spring/Oil combo have greater effect on net rear traction – the softer the spring/oil combo the more rear grip.
POSITION
FLATTER – more on-power steering (to a point)
HIGHER – less on-power steering
SPRING
LIGHTER – more rear traction and better control on bumpy tracks. much off power steering, little on power steering (less spinouts coming out of the
corner
STIFFER – less rear traction. much on-power mid-out steering, little off power steering
OIL
Controls the front to rear grip bias.
LIGHER - balance to rear (more rear traction)
HEAVIER - balance to front (more front traction/steering).
Best use a very weak oil with a softer front tire compound, for example a magenta instead of a purple for more overall traction instead of heavy oil
and a hard front tire.
REAR POD DROOP
MORE – makes car turn in harder. More hi-speed steering. Handles bumpy tracks better.
LESS or NONE – car smoother into corners
SIDE LINKS (ROLL-CENTER)
RAISE – raises roll center. Will increase steering.
LOWER – lowers roll center. Locks rear end more.
BATTERY POSITION
FORWARD – easier to drive, less steering. Less wt xfer into corners.
BACK – more steering due to increase in wt xfer. Car can feel darty off-power. This coupled with longer shock (rear pod droop) makes car rotate
harder into corners by unloading rear tires.
FRONT STEERING KNUCKLES
OFFSET – standard on any pancar (but oval)
INLINE – huge increase in steering response. Car becomes really twitchy. Sometimes used on 10th scale roadcourse pan car.
T-BAR SHIM
UNDER FRONT BALL – adds anti-squat – more initial steering on entry and plants rear mid corner and exit (push)
FRONT TIRES
LESS ROUNDED EDGE – makes car edgy and car want to tip over at high speed cornering situations. Can be advantageous on loose conditions
where car has no high-speed bite, tho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical tuning: front tires, center spring, and front tire-dope
In general: anything that stiffens rear end adds steering
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File Type: pdf 12 tips.pdf (13.4 KB, 212 views)
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:18 PM   #26060
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Hi tpczx6, Thx for your response. Well I know this page and mostly when someone asks they will be delivered this page ;-) and this is what I mean. You only get what the result will be if you change something, but you have no idea why it works that way.
I'll give an example:

SIDE TUBES / DAMPER DISK LUBE
Typically 10,000 ofna lube or Losi med hydra fluid
THICKER – increases front traction – adds steering. Slows transition and softens steering in fast sweepers. If car is double steering on power use
thicker oil to slow reaction time but if go to far you can see inside rear tire lift in tight corners.
THINNER – decreases front traction – decreases steering.

Why is this?? Changing the damper tube oil has, as far as I can tell a direct impact on dampening the front. Because the weight distribution in the front will be the movement of the complete main chassis. if you dampen this with the tubes, this should make for idd a softer steer BUT, thinner would definately not mean decreasing front traction, just better reaction of the front!!!!
Does anyone have a good explanation for the things going on in a 1/12?
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:10 PM   #26061
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thickening the dampening on the king pins or in the tubes or damper discs will do exactly that,dampen.the explination tim gave is correct.when you use thicker oil in the tubes,it slows the rate at which the chassis rolls.the chassis rolls around the central pivot.thickening the damper tube oil will slow the rate the side spring or t bar absorb the weight transfer and will transfer more of the weight to the outside front wheel creating more downforce on the front tire making it dig harder.if you need to run too thick of oil to get steering,then your side springs are too soft.you do not want to have to run too thick because even though you are gaining steering,you are slowing down the rate at which the chassis reacts.if you are too thick the car can have a tendancy lift the inside rear tire because of this.the best is to set a limit of say,10,000 wt oil in the tubes and never exceed that.
for dampening on the kingpins,i use this to slow the reaction of the front suspension.this is something that is commonly overlooked.the front suspension works faster than the rest of the car.therefor you need to slow it down to keep a balance.when you enter a corner,weight is transfered to the front of the car.it is then absorbed by the front springs(how much that is transfered to the front tires is dependant on what springs you use).once the weight is absorbed,then the front will relax.with that being said,all of this can happen before you get set into the corner and cause the front to slip or double steer.now at this point you will need to dampen the front to slow it down.usually 5000 wt. works for me.this also allows me to use lighter oil in the tubes because i am not compensating for the push just in the tubes.you balance the dampening between the front and rear and you will have a car that bites good and reacts fast.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:51 PM   #26062
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now at this point you will need to dampen the front to slow it down.usually 5000 wt. works for me.this also allows me to use lighter oil in the tubes because i am not compensating for the push just in the tubes.you balance the dampening between the front and rear and you will have a car that bites good and reacts fast.
Hey Jason, are you talking about 500wt in the center shock? I havent really messed with my 1/12 much, when you say dampen the front, I thought this was all done with springs, do you also use oil on the kingpin or something else to slow the front suspension?
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:16 PM   #26063
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30 wt. in the center shock.i use 5000 wt. on the kingpins.the king pins work just like a damper tube with a spring.i control the reaction of the front end this way.without any oil on the kingpins,it will work like a pogo stick in a sense.alot of people use damper tubes to cure push but the steering can be manipulated from the front also.just relying on the side spring and dampening isnt always the answer.my rule of thumb is to use the lightest dampening possible for the tubes and kingpins.faster reaction and lots of steering is what you want.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:28 PM   #26064
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also,springs are on the car to absorb the weight transfer and absorb shock.the spring rate or wire thickness will determine how much weight will be absorbed and how much will transfer to the wheel.the front is a little different than the side to side because the front needs to compress in order to load the front tires.with side spring tension,a heavier side spring tension will drive more of the weight to the front opposing wheel and a lighter one would absorb the twist more.i like to run .020 frnt spring most often.they work well and do not collapse..018 would be my favorite if they didnt collapse so easy. i like a decent amount of progressive side spring tension in the rear.this is why i have always been a T bar guy and this is why i went the route i did with my new car.flextures are very progressive as opposed to a coil spring.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:01 PM   #26065
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Cool . . .thanks for the setup tips for the 1/12th scale! I just built my CRC T-Fource. I haven't had a chance to run it yet - I just got my gears and I'm trying to get my hands on an adapter for my tire truerer to true the tires. Check out the photo of what I've done so far
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:19 PM   #26066
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nice car.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:24 PM   #26067
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Originally Posted by Deebs View Post
Cool . . .thanks for the setup tips for the 1/12th scale! I just built my CRC T-Fource. I haven't had a chance to run it yet - I just got my gears and I'm trying to get my hands on an adapter for my tire truerer to true the tires. Check out the photo of what I've done so far
aww man, yours came with the graphite t-bar? mine didn't

I would advise you to use tape. The battery retaining system, although good looking, is a little.... warpy check out how straight the graphite bar is that the dampener tubes mount on. for the two minutes I had the battery straps installed on the T-fource it looked like a wet noodle.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:31 PM   #26068
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Jason, I'm new in 1/12 scale with my 12L4 but having a blast with it! I'm in the middle of a complete rebuild of it and was wondering if you're saying to use a 5000 wt. diff. lube to the damper disc and the front king pins? This won't gum up the pins I take it? Oh, I'm running on a large, flowing outdoor track, pretty smooth and med traction.

Thanks, Allen
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:02 PM   #26069
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that is what i always start with.it does get a little dirty after the day is done.i clean it out and re lube before each race day anyway.you dont want to load it on there.what i do is put a litle on the washers,rub them together and get a thick fully coated layer on the contact surfaces of the washers.i remove the top plate and stick the washers in there place on the top plate.i rub them into the top plate until it starts to feel stiff or you feel decent resistance.then i install the top plate with the washers already stuck to it.
for the kingpins,i just take the kingpin out,coat it with the oil,drop it through the pivot ball and spin the kingpin to ensure a good coat.then i slide the steering block on.i add a little more to the bottom of the kingpin and slide it through the lower pivot ball,install the spring and e-clip.wipe excess off the plastic but not off the kingpin.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:36 PM   #26070
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Jason:

Hi.

The new rear pod looks nice!!!!!!!. can't wait for the kits to come out. I'm on 1st all this week so I'll try to call after I get off.

Thanks
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