R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 09-20-2017, 08:54 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: DesertRat
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time. On black carpet the car may be numb to sauce changes, either a long or short sauce can produce very similar handling.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front. Alternatively you can sauce the front tires harder and tune the car for less front end bite.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz. Possibly a longer sauce will prevent fuzzing.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Rear - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Front - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
DISCONTINUED 1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!


If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!

Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:
Pan Car Front Suspension Tuning:
DISCLAIMER : The following tuning advice was written based on the tuning experience of the author and may not hold true for all cars, drivers, or surfaces. In the end the best tuning advice is to experiment and make changes one at a time so you can track your changes and find the car balance that works best for your driving style. One real world test is worth a million ‘expert’ opinions.

Front End Type:

All popular modern pan car front suspensions are very similar, with a few exceptions such as Speedmerchant New School but most of the info in this wiki applies to them as well. For the most part, they consist of a rigid bottom arm, an upper A-arm, and a kingpin with a spring. There are different flavors of this general design, such as the CRC Dynamic Strut that uses a threaded kingpin and upper pivot ball instead of the Associated style that uses a kingpin that goes through the entire steering knuckle assembly, but their operation is the same with the rigid lower arm and the upper arm controlling the arc of movement as the suspension is compressed.

Assembly:

More so than in almost any other part of the car, the front suspension of your 1/12 car must move absolutely free. Reamers and hobby knives are important here, as any binding will cause the car to corner unpredictably. A little play in the suspension is a good thing, and racers will often find that ‘worn in’ suspension pieces function a little better than new.

Springs:

Besides tires, spring rate is the most important part of deciding how your car will handle through corners, but are somewhat complicated. As a general rule of thumb, a very hard front spring will have somewhat less steering grip than a softer spring with the same suspension setup and tires, but not as much as in other classes such as touring or offroad. On carpet, springs of different tension can be used to tune how your car will maintain or lose energy through corners with the following general rule of thumb:

Hard Spring (0.55mm or harder): Less overall steering, quick reaction to driver input, less on power steering, harder turn-in with potentially lazy mid-corner and exit.

Soft Spring (.45mm): More overall steering especially at low speed, slightly slower reaction to driver input, more on-power steering, less aggressive turn-in but can ‘hook’ and give better mid-corner and exit.

It is worth noting that front springs from different suppliers are often very different, in both height, wire thickness, and coils for a given spring height meaning that a “medium” spring from one manufacturer may be the “hard” spring for another. To make accurate changes you may want to use one spring maker and stick with their line.

Another aspect to pan car springs is that they can get “blown out” and collapse, no longer as stiff or as tall as they were. These should be replaced with fresh springs to ensure consistent handling.

Dampening:

This is generally a minor adjustment, but adding dampening tube fluid to the front kingpins of a 1/12 car can give it a little more initial steering. Often unusual compounds see use here, such as Losi Smart Diff Grease or Associated Green Slime being a popular front kingpin lube.

Caster and Reactive Caster:

Caster is the angle of the kingpin, almost always angling back to the rear of the car, with a typical range from 0-10 degrees. Increasing your caster will typically result in less turn-in but a little more control, more steering exiting the corner, and somewhat increased straight-line stability with less tendency to wander because a wheel running caster will tend to straighten itself. Less caster will usually give you more off-power steering, but often with correspondingly less on-power when accelerating out of the corner.

Running reactive caster attempts to use both of these aspects to increase overall steering: when the car loads up on the outside front tire, the caster angle decreases, increasing the front end ‘hook’ as you enter the corner and then giving you the high caster on-power steering as you exit and weight is transferred off the front end. More reactive caster means more overall steering, but can mean you may have to adjust your driving style to drive more ‘ahead of the car’, needing to predict where the front end will grip.

As grip increases, less reactive caster is the normal tuning change made to keep the front end of the car from gripping too hard and oversteering and prevent traction roll. Static caster adjustments are still used to change the cars on power / off power steering balance.

Reactive Camber and Front Roll Center:

Reactive camber or camber gain is how much camber is added the front wheels as the suspension compresses. This can be increased or decreased by changing the angle and length of the top arm. Short, angled arm = more. Long, flat arm = less. More reactive camber will typically cause the car to “roll up” on the outer front wheel, transferring more weight in a turn and give more steering up to the point at which the tire is overloaded. This is generally more front grip and weight transfer than wanted on carpet, and as a result most cars run a flatter longer front arm.

Roll Center is the point on which the car will twist laterally or ‘roll’ during cornering. This can be raised or lowered by changing the angle and length of the top arm, with a short angled arm raising is slightly and a long flat arm lowering it. From what I have calculated most modern 1/12 cars meant for carpet have a roll center somewhere around the height of the chassis plate or just below it, but due to the lower arms being rigid and flat the roll center cannot be under the bottom of the tires like it often is on a touring car.
These two are inexorably linked in pan cars. Top arm length can be changed by the top arm mount in or out using shims or a CRC Long Arm kit, but is generally a minor tuning choice. Tuning of roll center with shims is usually a minor tuning choice in a pan car with a rigid bottom arm due to how the car cannot gain extra mechanical advantage on the lower arm as you can in a touring car, while reactive camber can be a significant driver of the car’s performance. In a modern car running on carpet the kit setup is usually perfectly fine.

Front End Alignment:

Static camber is the angle of your front wheels at rest, typically somewhere from 0 to 1.5 degrees on a pan car depending on surface, tire choice, and other factors, but a good starting point is usually somewhere around 0.5 degrees. More camber will typically give more steering, but many racers use static camber to ensure that their tires wear flat even if that means not having exactly equal camber on both sides of the car. This is adjusted by threading in and out the upper turnbuckle or pivot ball.

It is also worth noting that when running on high grip the flex and deformation of your chassis, suspension parts, and front wheels can become significant and cause uneven front tire wear. Some troubleshooting of the right combination of static camber, camber gain, caster, and tire/rim choice may be necessary to ensure even front tire wear.

Toe-In:

The front toe is one of the more easily adjusted aspects of the car and can have a significant effect on the attitude of the car due to it being a quick way to moderately adjust Ackerman without making significant other changes. With nothing else being adjusted, going from zero toe to toe-in will give a car a harder turn-in and will tend to scrub speed with the front end as opposed to using drag brake. This can be necessary when racing in Super Stock or higher power classes and will allow you to drive more aggressively, and can help the car track straighter under power. Toe-out will tend to make the car coast more through corners due to reducing the steering angle of the outer front tire. If a car has too much off-power steering but is otherwise stable, adding toe-out can calm the car but may the car to wander on the straights especially if the front end setup is very soft.

Ackerman:

Ackerman is the difference in steering angle between the two front tires during a turn. It is the result of how during a turn the inside of the car experiences a tighter circle and needs correspondingly more steering angle, but is also an important tuning tool. More Ackerman means having more inside wheel steering angle relative to the outer wheel, less means that the difference in steering angle is smaller.

To add or remove Ackerman, using a servo horn that spaces the links further apart (such as a Kimbrough Small Servo Saver, the outer holes on a Tamiya or Xray servo saver) will have more Ackerman than a servo that puts the links close together (Kimbrough Medium inner holes, Tamiya or Xray inner holes.) The rule of thumb is that a servo that puts the ball studs close together but spaced away from the servo horn will have less Ackerman than one that spaces them far apart and close to the servo horn. Ackerman changes will have the same effect as changing toe with more Ackerman being effectively toeing the wheels out and less toeing them in, but will not affect the straight-line attitude of the car.

Turning Circle / Steering Angle:

In offroad or even touring car you can set up the car to use the full angle of the steering 100% of the time. You will almost certainly not be able to do this in 1/12 scale. It goes without saying that as you turn up your steering angle you will gain steering often to the point of the car being undriveable. The quickest way to set the steering correctly is to set the sub-trim in your radio such that the car tracks straight and the servo horn is straight up and down, then set the endpoints equally such that they don't quite hit the steering bump-stops, then turn down the dual-rate or total throw from there. A typical starting point is somewhere between 45 and 60% of the total steering throw, or a 4-5' turning circle.
SOMEONE ELSE DO THE REAR TUNING SECTION! AND A TROUBLESHOOTING TREE! FEEL FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHANGES!

Print Wikipost

Like Tree62Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-12-2007, 02:31 PM   #24871
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,829
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
has anyone heard where IRS is at on the prototype lower a-arms for the AE front end he had in Cleveland?
he should have them out soon.he has alot up his sleeve right now.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 02:42 PM   #24872
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: California
Posts: 605
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
i finally found the time to finish a project I've been working on since last year. It's a hybrid car with a BMI motor box and OD12 front chassis. Jason sent me a top plate along with the motor plates so I could get the spacing right. I decided to use his top plate and made a one-off bottom plate to hook the two ends up. The BMI graphite has a nice satin finish, and my stuff is the usual shiny cf, so I wet sanded the OD12 parts to get a matching finish on the whole car. I sanded the parts surfaces after sealing the edges with ca so it has a really nice look to the edge. I'm really happy with the way this one turned out
Nice multi-color shrink tube. Another upcoming OD product? oh boy do I hope
__________________
www.freerice.com
Help hungry people while learning.
smojoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 02:47 PM   #24873
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,829
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

[QUOTE=SlowerOne]

I read somewhere here that link cars don't do as well on slippery surfaces (asphalt, etc.). Since the Jack additive creates less grip than Paragon, that may be one reason link cars don't do well over here.


in the testing i have done,i found that light side spring tension on a 1/12th will lack steering or front traction.when a 1/12th transfers weight going in a through a corner,the rear pod stays flat and the chassis rolls on the central pivot.the side spring tension controls the load on the front tires.a soft spring will absorb the weight transfer and a stiff one will not.it will drive the front tire to the surface.what you try to get is a good balance for the given track surface along with a smoothe progression of roll resistance.the link cars side springs are pretty light.i needed to increase side dampening and move the batteries forward to move the mass weight closer to the front and away from the pivot to cheat it a little.the loss from that was entry steering.i gained on power steering from dead weight closer to the front but with the lack of rearward weight,i lost some of the weight transfer forward which effected my corner entry steering.this is why i kinda went in the direction i did and wanted to have the progressive side spring tension along with the free forward pivot.i was able to get a T bar car working great and the link car good also but i just couldnt get it as good as the T bar.this is on asphalt.on carpet,with the abundance of traction,this is not as apparent.this was my findings on the reasons for T bar cars being the car of choice on asphalt.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 02:49 PM   #24874
Tech Elite
 
odpurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smojoe
Nice multi-color shrink tube. Another upcoming OD product? oh boy do I hope
Nope. Just something I got a long time ago, never seen it since. Besides, if I was gonna do multi-colored shrink tube it would have to have purple on it
__________________
TOP Racing USA--OD Racing--Novak--Power Push--J Spec
odpurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 03:05 PM   #24875
Tech Elite
 
mike ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Comin at ya from a distant galaxy
Posts: 2,792
Trader Rating: 50 (100%+)
Default

odpurple ygpm, question for ya
__________________
[-eXpress motorsports-] [-TQ Wire-]

1/12th Fo' Life!!! R.I.P Mike Reedy, R.I.P John Williams

[-Horsham RC-] [-Jackson RC-] [-RC Car World-] [ Black Out Free 2015 ]
mike ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 03:31 PM   #24876
Tech Elite
 
wallyedmonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brampton ont canada
Posts: 3,662
Default

[QUOTE=protc3]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne

I read somewhere here that link cars don't do as well on slippery surfaces (asphalt, etc.). Since the Jack additive creates less grip than Paragon, that may be one reason link cars don't do well over here.


in the testing i have done,i found that light side spring tension on a 1/12th will lack steering or front traction.when a 1/12th transfers weight going in a through a corner,the rear pod stays flat and the chassis rolls on the central pivot.the side spring tension controls the load on the front tires.a soft spring will absorb the weight transfer and a stiff one will not.it will drive the front tire to the surface.what you try to get is a good balance for the given track surface along with a smoothe progression of roll resistance.the link cars side springs are pretty light.i needed to increase side dampening and move the batteries forward to move the mass weight closer to the front and away from the pivot to cheat it a little.the loss from that was entry steering.i gained on power steering from dead weight closer to the front but with the lack of rearward weight,i lost some of the weight transfer forward which effected my corner entry steering.this is why i kinda went in the direction i did and wanted to have the progressive side spring tension along with the free forward pivot.i was able to get a T bar car working great and the link car good also but i just couldnt get it as good as the T bar.this is on asphalt.on carpet,with the abundance of traction,this is not as apparent.this was my findings on the reasons for T bar cars being the car of choice on asphalt.
this sounds about right but maybe the side spring thing is a little like this


a t plate spring from side to side is more progressive,it gets more stiff faster along the travel
a link is more linear but gets stiffer along its travel,its more free but more consistent than a t plate

and for on asphalt ill see what happens but i think i can get it to work well
last year i ran the L4 outside and it was ok.

i think the rear end of a link car is more planted than in a t plate car.
this is maybe some have front end push or the front wheels to wear faster.
wallyedmonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 03:53 PM   #24877
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,179
Default

It's still odd though that you guys see link cars as pushing to me...mine definately don't and link cars tend to come with a heavier front spring to combat the over agressive front.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 03:58 PM   #24878
Tech Elite
 
wallyedmonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brampton ont canada
Posts: 3,662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt
It's still odd though that you guys see link cars as pushing to me...mine definately don't and link cars tend to come with a heavier front spring to combat the over agressive front.
my car dose not push
so idono
wallyedmonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:04 PM   #24879
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: somewhere in the north of england
Posts: 347
Default

link cars seem to have a heck of a lot of steering compared to a t-bar car i know this cause i have driven both i much prefer t bar car cause I hate lot of turn in. Plus i seem to be able to set the t-bar for neutral steering
Smoking motor.. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:09 PM   #24880
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,829
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

the link cars dont push to the point of being bad.wally is correct in the fact that a link car is going to be planted in the rear.stiffer side springs will increase the steering making it harder for the rear to bite as hard.this is why T bar cars use the .062 T bar on asphalt.its for the softer spring tension to gain rear bite.a T bar car also has the added forward spring tension that is also more progressive than the shock spring alone.the spring rate and dampening in the shock controls the weight transfer forward and aft which is why i believe a link car will feel smoothe.i noticed this same thing with my new car.i found myself running a gold center spring with 35 wt oil and it was so smoothe but with the .062 flex plates it did in fact push some.i went to .074 side plates and now i had exceeded the steering of the T bar car but the car still felt smoothe.having steering will always take rear traction away.what you need is the right balance.the T bar cars are not as tunable in this resect because alot of the forward and side spring tension is somewhat fixed.you can decrease forward spring tension by removing the center screw and releaving some leverage from the mass of the bar.this is what i think helps them work so well on asphalt is because its simple stupid.it is very easy to tune yourself out into left field.sometimes alot of adjustment can hurt you.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:14 PM   #24881
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,829
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

a link car setup real good will be very smoothe and easy to drive.it is very easy to make a car with that many adjustments loose.i found this out with my own car also.once it gets dialed in it will be good.

also,i think you guys are taking the whole "push" word a little hard. a car that has push compared to a car that doesnt is seen in lap times and tire wear.extreme push just is flat out a bad setup when i say push,i mean having to lift earlier for a corner or needing very soft compound front.maybe even excessive sauce on tires and also getting heavy tire wear.good tire wear i have found has been about .015 off the fronts after an 8 minute run.this is on asphalt guys,i know they dont wear like this on carpet.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:21 PM   #24882
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,829
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

wally,

a spring compressing will absorb.it is when it is limited by its own tension that it will then transfer weight.until that point it will continue to absorb.weight transfer is everything when it comes to handling and how and at the speed you direct it controls the way the car handles.a T bar will get squirly when it gets fatigued as will a coil spring when it collapses. with a T bar i would change it after taking a good hit to the rear.i dont look for cracks,white spots or nothing.after a good hit i do not trust it.hmm,i also change it if someone molests the rear of the car with twisting the piss out of it to see what it feels like.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:28 PM   #24883
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,179
Default

I had always heard before that link cars were better on carpet because they were more agressive in steering then t-bar cars and t-bar cars were better on asphault. I had read that this was because the weight transfer from rear to front under deceleration was faster in a link car. I definately do agree that link cars seem too softly sprung in the roll. It is strange though because by feel my link car with the stiff springs feels stiffer in roll then my t-bar car. But you see the difference in the chassis where the link car the edges of the chassis are worn more then that of the t-bar car. This is one of the reasons why I switched from my CRC to the Darkside. The Darkside has spring mounting positions that can be more outboard then other link cars giving the spring better leverage and stiffer roll.

Anyway...I have an idea for one that is neither t-bar or mono pivot. Unfortunately I like the equipment to design it in CAD and cut a prototype
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:28 PM   #24884
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,829
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

by the way OD,the car looks pimp bro.we need to swap cars for a weekend sometime.i would love to take it for a spin
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:31 PM   #24885
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
when i say push,i mean having to lift earlier for a corner or needing very soft compound front.maybe even excessive sauce on tires and also getting heavy tire wear.good tire wear i have found has been about .015 off the fronts after an 8 minute run.this is on asphalt guys,i know they dont wear like this on carpet.
With my link cars I find I have to run a stiffer front spring then I do with my t-bar cars and a stiffer front tire or I run into too much steering. tire wear for me has always been pretty even with my friends running t-bar cars and better then some.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 04:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 01:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 07:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 08:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (1 members and 4 guests)
Mr.Cooper
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:56 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net