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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 04-02-2007, 11:14 AM   #24526
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:24 AM   #24527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF
a quick way to measure pod droop is to take a straight edge and place it tight tothe bottom of the chassis and see where it line up against the back edge of the pod. I beleive that mid point of the pod is equal to 1mm of droop.

E
Eric - I hate to ask some of these questions in a forum It is hard to disguise my R/C ignorance from the rest of the world

What I got from your post is that you adjust the center shock collar so that the rear of the pod is lower than the front end of the pod, right? Does that cause the rear pod to rotate forward and transfer additional weight to the front of the car when off throttle - effectively increasing steering? Or am I thinking about this wrong. I tilted mine so the front edge was a little lower than the rear edge to eliminate - or reduce - rear to front weight transfer off throttle, but increase front to rear weight transfer on thottle to plant the rear on corner exit and drive off straight.

Obvioulsy, what I did with my car - whether it was one major thing or a number of small things - didn't work too well...

Does anyone else have input on pod droop?

Thanks Eric!

This forum is GREAT!!! Thank you all for the assistance.

Jeremy
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:31 AM   #24528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkas10
Eric - I hate to ask some of these questions in a forum It is hard to disguise my R/C ignorance from the rest of the world

What I got from your post is that you adjust the center shock collar so that the rear of the pod is lower than the front end of the pod, right? Does that cause the rear pod to rotate forward and transfer additional weight to the front of the car when off throttle - effectively increasing steering? Or am I thinking about this wrong. I tilted mine so the front edge was a little lower than the rear edge to eliminate - or reduce - rear to front weight transfer off throttle, but increase front to rear weight transfer on thottle to plant the rear on corner exit and drive off straight.

Obvioulsy, what I did with my car - whether it was one major thing or a number of small things - didn't work too well...

Does anyone else have input on pod droop?

Thanks Eric!

This forum is GREAT!!! Thank you all for the assistance.

Jeremy
okay your t-force has too much steering this is due to two things your runing 10 degree caster blocks change them to the 5 degree ones use the grey tweak spring or tweak screws,the other thing i found to gain corner speed with out scrubbing use 20,000wt oil in the damper tubes which help smooth the car entering the corner.

What are you running on carpet or tarmac use the thin 0.63 t-bar for carpet and the 0.73 for tarmac
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:48 PM   #24529
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Hello guys,

Just to make it correct, even the V-Dezign Carpet Ripper may look similar to FF '07, they have something same kind of stuff but are still totally different cars built on different concept. I have known Jari since '95 as we are from the same club. We are in contact very often also nowadays, weekly or even more often. Both have own ideas on cars which have been done in a different way with different style and thinking but also something has been done together. I know FF'07 is a superb car as well as the Carpet Ripper Both have proved they are a winners.

I have been running with different V-Dezign protos now since last februari '06 and the final update kit will be out very soon.

Any info about the car will be available at my website soon @ www.v-dezign.net (car section is under constructuon and doesnt exist yet, will be there in these days).

I asked Andy Griffiths (worlds a finalist, euro champ, multiple euro a finalis) if he would be interested to try my car in october. Since that, Andy dominated the UK tracks race after race.

I and Andy Griffiths run the latest and the final version of car this winter with good success with some of the results in here:

Andy
-1st place in 10 out of 12 Nationals in UK in both 19t and mod.
-4th at the 2007 Euros

Vesa
- 2nd at Finnish Champs 2006 with proto car
- 1st in Rebellion Race in October in Finland
- A main at the Euros warmup and finished 7th
- 2nd at 2nd rnd of nationals in finland
- TQ'd with ~1,5 LAPS and took 1st place in every final at 3rd rnd of
nationals in finland ( all top drivers attended the race)
- 10th at the 2007 Euros

All who are interested about the car, can contact me thru my website or @ vesa@v-dezign.net

The kits should be available in may. The kit will include all graphite parts and alum motor pod. Photos will be available shortly. The car has got a lot of interest and already now it seems it will be the most popular car in Finland next season

BR,
Vesa
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:01 PM   #24530
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Yes, the rear of the pod is lower than the front of the pod (chassis), that's what gives droop.

Pod droop is controlled by the length of the shock, not the tightening of the collar. The collar on the spring is for ride height adjustments.

I'll have to let protc3, odpurple or adrian answer the tech. aspects of what droop does. As I don't think I can fully explain what it does.

E


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkas10
Eric - I hate to ask some of these questions in a forum It is hard to disguise my R/C ignorance from the rest of the world

What I got from your post is that you adjust the center shock collar so that the rear of the pod is lower than the front end of the pod, right? Does that cause the rear pod to rotate forward and transfer additional weight to the front of the car when off throttle - effectively increasing steering? Or am I thinking about this wrong. I tilted mine so the front edge was a little lower than the rear edge to eliminate - or reduce - rear to front weight transfer off throttle, but increase front to rear weight transfer on thottle to plant the rear on corner exit and drive off straight.

Obvioulsy, what I did with my car - whether it was one major thing or a number of small things - didn't work too well...

Does anyone else have input on pod droop?

Thanks Eric!

This forum is GREAT!!! Thank you all for the assistance.

Jeremy
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:57 PM   #24531
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I think there is some misunderstanding about checking droop, ride height and what we call sag. Droop is checked with the chassis un-weighted (in the air), it is how much below level the back of the motor pod is when it is hanging. Ride height is of course checked on the tech block with the chassis fully loaded (batteries, etc), you check it at the front, rear, and middle. Sag is when the front of the motor pod sits lower than the rear, or the middle ride height is less than the front and rear of the chassis. Sometimes a little sag makes the car more forgiving, and you should never run it above level.

Clear as mud?
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:07 PM   #24532
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Sag I don't think I knew about that one. I've always set the front of the pod level with the chassis. So if I have sag in the pod it takes away steering all the around, high/ low speed steering or does it do something else?

E
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:46 PM   #24533
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droop in a 1/12th does exactly the same thing as in a touring car and i measure it the same way.what it does is controls the amount of weight transfer to the front of the car during deceleration or off power.front droop does the same but during acceleration or on throttle it controls the weight transfer to the rear of the car.both adjustments also help control the car over bumps so it kind of a trade off.i check my rear pod droop by placing the car on a flat piece of glass and adjust my ride height with all the race gear in the car.i set my shock spring preload so that the collar preloads the spring by 1 full turn on the collar when fully extended.now what i do is compress my suspension to the ground,let it fully rebound and then check my ride height.now that i know my ride height after a full rebound i lift the car slowly by the front of the upper pod plate until my shock bottoms out at its full extension.i measure the distance over my ride height untill the rear wheels lift.usually i run 1.5-2mm over ride height for asphalt and .5-1mm for carpet.to change this i will adjust the length of my ball cups on the shock,i never adjust the collar once it is set unless i lose alot of ride height.for front droop i do the same deal but i shim it so there is about .010-.015 of preload on the front springs at rest.when the car is at ride height it will have about .5mm of up travel over ride height.this is with .020 front springs.rear pod sag i never use.i always run the rear pod dead level.at ride height i check all 4 corners of the pod and make sure that it is level.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:51 PM   #24534
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another side note on the diffs,i always run my diff as tight as possible with it being as free as possible.what i do is sand the diff rings with a fine grit sand paper to create a smoothe but slightly abrasive surface to the rings.this gives the diff balls something to grip so the diff doesnt slip easily.you will find that if you sand the diff rings and get them really flat,you will not need to tighten the diff nearly as much and it will be locked when you try to slip it.i cant slip my diffs with a 4.5 brushless motor but when you spin one wheel it feels like a stock motor would smoke it out.a diff is one of the most important parts of a 1/12th car.tires and diff make up at least 75% of the decision if your car is gonna be good or bad.get em both right and you can win with any car on the market.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:57 PM   #24535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
droop in a 1/12th does exactly the same thing as in a touring car and i measure it the same way.what it does is controls the amount of weight transfer to the front of the car during deceleration or off power.front droop does the same but during acceleration or on throttle it controls the weight transfer to the rear of the car.both adjustments also help control the car over bumps so it kind of a trade off.i check my rear pod droop by placing the car on a flat piece of glass and adjust my ride height with all the race gear in the car.i set my shock spring preload so that the collar preloads the spring by 1 full turn on the collar when fully extended.now what i do is compress my suspension to the ground,let it fully rebound and then check my ride height.now that i know my ride height after a full rebound i lift the car slowly by the front of the upper pod plate until my shock bottoms out at its full extension.i measure the distance over my ride height untill the rear wheels lift.usually i run 1.5-2mm over ride height for asphalt and .5-1mm for carpet.to change this i will adjust the length of my ball cups on the shock,i never adjust the collar once it is set unless i lose alot of ride height.for front droop i do the same deal but i shim it so there is about .010-.015 of preload on the front springs at rest.when the car is at ride height it will have about .5mm of up travel over ride height.this is with .020 front springs.rear pod sag i never use.i always run the rear pod dead level.at ride height i check all 4 corners of the pod and make sure that it is level.
so i do do this right.
after all these years.
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:39 PM   #24536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
another side note on the diffs,i always run my diff as tight as possible with it being as free as possible.what i do is sand the diff rings with a fine grit sand paper to create a smoothe but slightly abrasive surface to the rings.this gives the diff balls something to grip so the diff doesnt slip easily.you will find that if you sand the diff rings and get them really flat,you will not need to tighten the diff nearly as much and it will be locked when you try to slip it.i cant slip my diffs with a 4.5 brushless motor but when you spin one wheel it feels like a stock motor would smoke it out.a diff is one of the most important parts of a 1/12th car.tires and diff make up at least 75% of the decision if your car is gonna be good or bad.get em both right and you can win with any car on the market.
What grit sandpaper do you use on the rings?
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:42 PM   #24537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
I think there is some misunderstanding about checking droop, ride height and what we call sag. Droop is checked with the chassis un-weighted (in the air), it is how much below level the back of the motor pod is when it is hanging. Ride height is of course checked on the tech block with the chassis fully loaded (batteries, etc), you check it at the front, rear, and middle. Sag is when the front of the motor pod sits lower than the rear, or the middle ride height is less than the front and rear of the chassis. Sometimes a little sag makes the car more forgiving, and you should never run it above level.

Clear as mud?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
Droop is checked with the chassis un-weighted (in the air), it is how much below level the back of the motor pod is when it is hanging.
To what extent do you mean by "un-weighted"? Motor out? I imagine motor in or motor out would be a big difference in droop measurement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple
Sag is when the front of the motor pod sits lower than the rear, or the middle ride height is less than the front and rear of the chassis. Sometimes a little sag makes the car more forgiving
I had a little sag in the car yesterday. I did it with the shock collar. It looks like I need to make these adjustments with the ball cup threaded on more or less of the shock shaft... Or, run it level like Jason says.

OdP, Do you run level or a little sag?

Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:00 PM   #24538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOTMAN
What grit sandpaper do you use on the rings?
to be honest,i cheat and i use my surface grinder i grind it to about a 32 finish
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:00 PM   #24539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
i set my shock spring preload so that the collar preloads the spring by 1 full turn on the collar when fully extended.
Jason, I want to clarify rthe shock spring preload. I understand you run the chassis and rear pod level by measuring eight locations to ensure this (four corners of the chassis and four corners of the rear pod) you use the ball cup to obtain this level of levelness

Now, do you then keep the car perfectly level and add one turn of preload with the shock at this position, OR, do you extend the shock fully by pulling the rear pod back/down - or simply removing one end from the car... - and then add one turn of preload? I am guessing the latter.

Do you have the spring on the shock, or the collar backed off, when setting ride height? Or, is it all in the shock oil/rebound to keep the center of the chassis and front of rear pod level? Because if the shock spring is on and has any tension created by the collar when setting ride height, won't your ride height measurments change when you fully extend the shock and turn in one round of preload?

Can a guy just set the spring preload before you even begin messing with ride height? Fully extended is fully extended, right? Oh, wait; I answered my own question. If we have to turn the ball cup end on the shock shaft to adjust ride height, that will change our "fully extended" shock length. How did I do?

Boy, this keyboard racing is fun.!!! It really bites to think through this stuff, spend the hours to attempt to properly prepare your vehicles, and then stink up the joint when you place the car on the track. Trust me - I am always faster on the way to the track then on the way home...

Thanks for sharing your wisdom!
Jeremy
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:12 PM   #24540
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what i do is start by removing the shock all together and fully extending it untill the piston bottoms out on the cap.then i run the collar down until it just kisses the spring.then i go 1 full revolution on the collar for preload.now i put the shock back on the car.i will set my ride height by adjusting the length of the shock with the ball cups until my pod is level in all 4 corners of the rear pod and then use the ride height adjusters on the axle to set my ride height.if need be i will cut the ball cups a little shorter depending on how short i run the shock.now i will check the pod droop by lifting the center of the car by the top area where the top of the shock mounts.i will then slide a ride height gauge under the rear of the chassis right as the shock bottoms out.this measurement over ride height is your droop.the more uptravel you have the more weight transfers to the front under deceleration.in otherwords,more off power steering.after i do all those things,i fine tune with shock collar and length to maintain a level rear pod.you dont want to preload the spring too much due to the the fact that springs are progressive.
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hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



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