R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-12-2006, 02:53 PM   #20506
Tech Master
 
Rob Phillips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Indianapolis / VA
Posts: 1,722
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Damn, I thought I get slammed for sure! Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.
__________________
Team Durango | TrakPower | DE Racing | Futaba | Restricted Paint Worx

Velocity R/C Magazine - vrcmag.com
Rob Phillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 03:15 PM   #20507
Tech Addict
 
IslandBwoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 602
Default

I couldnt agree more. I mean people race lawn mowers too but you dont see us trying to replicate that with a lexan body :-)
IslandBwoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 03:20 PM   #20508
Tech Adept
 
BimmerDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandBwoy
I couldnt agree more. I mean people race lawn mowers too but you dont see us trying to replicate that with a lexan body :-)
I think it's an aero issue. Everytime I go by the R/C airport the damned mower is buzzing the field at fifty feet altitude.
BimmerDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 09:18 PM   #20509
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,119
Trader Rating: 237 (100%+)
Default

Wellllllll.....

Then why call it "scale"? 1/12 of what? 1/10 of what? Call it what it's become--FULL scale electric carpet racing devices. Don't call it any scale of anything.

What everyone entirely misses in their ongoing (and it's been ongoing for decades now) argument "but it handles better" is that whatever was current didn't put anybody at any advantage or disadvantage UNTIL whatever exception was being rationalized was permitted, usually obsoleting whatever came before and forcing whoever sold those to create the next "advancement" or perish.

Take a look at the bodies that were used in the late '80's/early '90's...you could spot the Porsche 962, Jag XJR10, Intrepid, etc--they looked recognizeably like the car they were purported to represent. As it is now I can propose the 1/12 Thingiemobile and declare it to be precisely 1/12 scale of the full size car I've got sitting on my drawing board. Let the SOB's on the approval committee prove me wrong--I've got it drawn out here in green, orange and red crayon. I did it in the third grade after I saw my first CanAm race. The fact that my Thingiemobile is a perfect wedge shape with side dams that extend 8 feet in height shouldn't offend anyone, should it? I mean, heck, it'll definitely be faster.

Scottrik
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 09:47 PM   #20510
Tech Adept
 
BimmerDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 178
Default

In 1967 there were 20,000 slot car track in the US. I had 2 Cox 1/24 scale cars; a GT40 and Chaparral, both had styrene plastic bodies. Static scale quality that raced on the tracks. Along about 1967-68 some guy comes out with a vacuum formed wedge sports car. It had a little bump where the driver was supposed to sit, didn't look like a scale anything.

I ran a hobbyshop in the '80's, we built a hillclimb raceway slot track. The Gr.12 and Gr.15 cars we ran were wedges with a clear crescent where the cockpit was to be. The cars had lexan side dams extending behind the car that were 2+/- inches high; these folded down as the car ran, adding 3" width and tons of downforce. The cars lapped the track in about 2.25 seconds... and we never ran the fastest class.

What did all that speed get slot cars? There's about 200 tracks in the US today. How much did the supersonic doorstops have to do with the demise of this hobby?

JMO
BimmerDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 12:16 AM   #20511
Tech Champion
 
lbckevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,442
Trader Rating: 82 (99%+)
Default

Who cares about bodies...Just run your car and support your local track.
__________________
Kevin Smith
Schuur Speed* Hobbywing * Pro-Line * MIP * Paint Monster Airbrushing * Schelle Racing
lbckevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 12:50 AM   #20512
Tech Elite
 
Anthony.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Federal Way, WA
Posts: 2,701
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Here is my new Diggity Designs D12 I will be testing tomorrow for Vegas next week. Thanks to Damon at Diggity Designs for getting me the car fast. However my work schedule has delayed the build.



Sorry for the crappy pic, I'm too tired to invest more time in the photography.
Anthony.L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 02:49 AM   #20513
Tech Adept
 
lonepalm4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 99
Default

wow, thats awesome!! i was just about to buy some material to do the exact same thing, but now i might wait and see if this design makes it into production. or is there a way to get one of my own?? very nice. considering the weight of the new cells, and brushless motors, i think this might be the way to go. please let us know how it works.

also, does anyone make a rear pod that has the motor shifted toward the spur to accomodate the heavier bl motors? it would take an axle with a different offset, but it should balance the car much better.

ps, good luck in vegas next week...................
lonepalm4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 02:53 AM   #20514
Tech Elite
 
Anthony.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Federal Way, WA
Posts: 2,701
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonepalm4
but now i might wait and see if this design makes it into production. or is there a way to get one of my own??
The design is in version 2 and in production. You can get your own by ordering from the web site.

http://www.diggitydesigns.com/d12_pics.html
Anthony.L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 03:06 AM   #20515
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linger
Tim - I actually agree with you. A 7.4V lipo pack is just too fast to actually race with. I do not support that we start racing with this much voltage with a 1/12 scale. I did it for the "what if?" factor. The fact that everyone who tried it was grinning ear to ear was worth the effort.

My next experiment will be to try a 3.7V lipo in a 1/12 scale. I could rewire the 4.0 Ah 7.4V lipo that I have in there right now into a monster 8.0Ah 3.7V pack. It would be like running a 3 cell NIMH with super low IR. Hopefully the speed will be decent. I guess a receiver pack will be a must.

I don't think we should always equate voltage with speed/power. With our current 4 cell packs we could just use a touring 6 single, it would be too fast, likewise with a 7.4v lipo (8.4v charged) you could always use an 18x3 and it would be almost sensible!

The thing that kills most electric parts is high current, with lower voltage to have the same power you need even more current (power = volts x current). The reduced arcing at the comm with lower voltage in 12th does mean more motor life, but motors have always lasted longer in 12th than touring cars! I think tourers at low voltages will have enormous current which will heat wires, heat speedo's and generally make things inefficient. High currents also destroy Li-Po's.

To compare again to the flying part of the hobby, there has been a bit of a transition to higher voltages and lower capacities - there is still the same amount of energy in 4 cells wired in parallel (big capacity low voltage) as 4 cells in series (big voltage lower mah). However nothing gets as hot as the current is much lower, you just have to choose a suitable motor, ie not the same one, much like using a milder motor in a 12th if you have Li-Po's in it.

With brushless there is no arcing so the higher voltages cause no problems, the lower currents help keep speedo's cooler, look at the amount of tourers that shut down because the speedo gets too hot, both brushed and brushless come to think of it.

Li-Po's do still need to be handled with caution, shorting them or charging them incorrectly gets pretty messy!!! However treated well they are great.

I have used 2s3p packs in a 12th (4500mah total) with a 19t, it was absolutely awesome! current was a touch high though, 19's are designed to drag as much power as they can get, efficiency is secondary!!

However having said all that i do kinda like the 12th's just as they are at the moment! But the future is coming.....I just worry that people think lower voltage is the only way.....
Smartarse88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 04:28 AM   #20516
Tech Addict
 
fathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony.L
Here is my new Diggity Designs D12 I will be testing tomorrow for Vegas next week. Thanks to Damon at Diggity Designs for getting me the car fast. However my work schedule has delayed the build.

Sorry for the crappy pic, I'm too tired to invest more time in the photography.
Bastard!! I'm still waiting by the mailbox for mine, hopefully tomorrow
__________________
Slavich Design
fathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 04:30 AM   #20517
Tech Addict
 
fathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linger
My next experiment will be to try a 3.7V lipo in a 1/12 scale. I could rewire the 4.0 Ah 7.4V lipo that I have in there right now into a monster 8.0Ah 3.7V pack. It would be like running a 3 cell NIMH with super low IR. Hopefully the speed will be decent. I guess a receiver pack will be a must.

I was just thinking about this yesterday

But it would mean I would actaully have to buy a LiPo

3.7V LiPo & Novak 3.5R anyone
__________________
Slavich Design
fathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 07:02 AM   #20518
Tech Addict
 
RaceBucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Posts: 512
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

My esc came with thick guage wire that is definately affecting the pod's movement. I've searched but haven't found a source for really good flexible 16 guage wire. Local electronics stuff is to stiff, haven't seen on web either.
Where can I get this stuff?
Thanks.
__________________
"We face each other as God intended. Sportsman-like. No tricks, skill against skill alone." -Fezzik
RaceBucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 07:21 AM   #20519
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,119
Trader Rating: 237 (100%+)
Default

My usual source for 16ga wire is Heliproz (one of, if not THE, largest mail-order helicopter specialists in the US). The wire is at:

16ga wire at Heliproz

Unfortunately they show out of stock at the moment, but I've got to believe that's a temporary situation.

Scottrik
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 07:24 AM   #20520
Tech Elite
 
dr_hfuhuhurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,422
Trader Rating: 69 (100%+)
Default

KO Propo 15ga wire.

http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro....1052.56.0.0.0
__________________
"There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Which side are you on?"

“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” - John Wayne
dr_hfuhuhurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:14 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0