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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Rear - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Front - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
DISCONTINUED 1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!


If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!

Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:
Pan Car Front Suspension Tuning:
DISCLAIMER : The following tuning advice was written based on the tuning experience of the author and may not hold true for all cars, drivers, or surfaces. In the end the best tuning advice is to experiment and make changes one at a time so you can track your changes and find the car balance that works best for your driving style. One real world test is worth a million ‘expert’ opinions.

Front End Type:

All popular modern pan car front suspensions are very similar, with a few exceptions such as Speedmerchant New School but most of the info in this wiki applies to them as well. For the most part, they consist of a rigid bottom arm, an upper A-arm, and a kingpin with a spring. There are different flavors of this general design, such as the CRC Dynamic Strut that uses a threaded kingpin and upper pivot ball instead of the Associated style that uses a kingpin that goes through the entire steering knuckle assembly, but their operation is the same with the rigid lower arm and the upper arm controlling the arc of movement as the suspension is compressed.

Assembly:

More so than in almost any other part of the car, the front suspension of your 1/12 car must move absolutely free. Reamers and hobby knives are important here, as any binding will cause the car to corner unpredictably. A little play in the suspension is a good thing, and racers will often find that ‘worn in’ suspension pieces function a little better than new.

Springs:

Besides tires, spring rate is the most important part of deciding how your car will handle through corners, but are somewhat complicated. As a general rule of thumb, a very hard front spring will have somewhat less steering grip than a softer spring with the same suspension setup and tires, but not as much as in other classes such as touring or offroad. On carpet, springs of different tension can be used to tune how your car will maintain or lose energy through corners with the following general rule of thumb:

Hard Spring (0.55mm or harder): Less overall steering, quick reaction to driver input, less on power steering, harder turn-in with potentially lazy mid-corner and exit.

Soft Spring (.45mm): More overall steering especially at low speed, slightly slower reaction to driver input, more on-power steering, less aggressive turn-in but can ‘hook’ and give better mid-corner and exit.

It is worth noting that front springs from different suppliers are often very different, in both height, wire thickness, and coils for a given spring height meaning that a “medium” spring from one manufacturer may be the “hard” spring for another. To make accurate changes you may want to use one spring maker and stick with their line.

Another aspect to pan car springs is that they can get “blown out” and collapse, no longer as stiff or as tall as they were. These should be replaced with fresh springs to ensure consistent handling.

Dampening:

This is generally a minor adjustment, but adding dampening tube fluid to the front kingpins of a 1/12 car can give it a little more initial steering. Often unusual compounds see use here, such as Losi Smart Diff Grease or Associated Green Slime being a popular front kingpin lube.

Caster and Reactive Caster:

Caster is the angle of the kingpin, almost always angling back to the rear of the car, with a typical range from 0-10 degrees. Increasing your caster will typically result in less turn-in but a little more control, more steering exiting the corner, and somewhat increased straight-line stability with less tendency to wander because a wheel running caster will tend to straighten itself. Less caster will usually give you more off-power steering, but often with correspondingly less on-power when accelerating out of the corner.

Running reactive caster attempts to use both of these aspects to increase overall steering: when the car loads up on the outside front tire, the caster angle decreases, increasing the front end ‘hook’ as you enter the corner and then giving you the high caster on-power steering as you exit and weight is transferred off the front end. More reactive caster means more overall steering, but can mean you may have to adjust your driving style to drive more ‘ahead of the car’, needing to predict where the front end will grip.

As grip increases, less reactive caster is the normal tuning change made to keep the front end of the car from gripping too hard and oversteering and prevent traction roll. Static caster adjustments are still used to change the cars on power / off power steering balance.

Reactive Camber and Front Roll Center:

Reactive camber or camber gain is how much camber is added the front wheels as the suspension compresses. This can be increased or decreased by changing the angle and length of the top arm. Short, angled arm = more. Long, flat arm = less. More reactive camber will typically cause the car to “roll up” on the outer front wheel, transferring more weight in a turn and give more steering up to the point at which the tire is overloaded. This is generally more front grip and weight transfer than wanted on carpet, and as a result most cars run a flatter longer front arm.

Roll Center is the point on which the car will twist laterally or ‘roll’ during cornering. This can be raised or lowered by changing the angle and length of the top arm, with a short angled arm raising is slightly and a long flat arm lowering it. From what I have calculated most modern 1/12 cars meant for carpet have a roll center somewhere around the height of the chassis plate or just below it, but due to the lower arms being rigid and flat the roll center cannot be under the bottom of the tires like it often is on a touring car.
These two are inexorably linked in pan cars. Top arm length can be changed by the top arm mount in or out using shims or a CRC Long Arm kit, but is generally a minor tuning choice. Tuning of roll center with shims is usually a minor tuning choice in a pan car with a rigid bottom arm due to how the car cannot gain extra mechanical advantage on the lower arm as you can in a touring car, while reactive camber can be a significant driver of the car’s performance. In a modern car running on carpet the kit setup is usually perfectly fine.

Front End Alignment:

Static camber is the angle of your front wheels at rest, typically somewhere from 0 to 1.5 degrees on a pan car depending on surface, tire choice, and other factors, but a good starting point is usually somewhere around 0.5 degrees. More camber will typically give more steering, but many racers use static camber to ensure that their tires wear flat even if that means not having exactly equal camber on both sides of the car. This is adjusted by threading in and out the upper turnbuckle or pivot ball.

It is also worth noting that when running on high grip the flex and deformation of your chassis, suspension parts, and front wheels can become significant and cause uneven front tire wear. Some troubleshooting of the right combination of static camber, camber gain, caster, and tire/rim choice may be necessary to ensure even front tire wear.

Toe-In:

The front toe is one of the more easily adjusted aspects of the car and can have a significant effect on the attitude of the car due to it being a quick way to moderately adjust Ackerman without making significant other changes. With nothing else being adjusted, going from zero toe to toe-in will give a car a harder turn-in and will tend to scrub speed with the front end as opposed to using drag brake. This can be necessary when racing in Super Stock or higher power classes and will allow you to drive more aggressively, and can help the car track straighter under power. Toe-out will tend to make the car coast more through corners due to reducing the steering angle of the outer front tire. If a car has too much off-power steering but is otherwise stable, adding toe-out can calm the car but may the car to wander on the straights especially if the front end setup is very soft.

Ackerman:

Ackerman is the difference in steering angle between the two front tires during a turn. It is the result of how during a turn the inside of the car experiences a tighter circle and needs correspondingly more steering angle, but is also an important tuning tool. More Ackerman means having more inside wheel steering angle relative to the outer wheel, less means that the difference in steering angle is smaller.

To add or remove Ackerman, using a servo horn that spaces the links further apart (such as a Kimbrough Small Servo Saver, the outer holes on a Tamiya or Xray servo saver) will have more Ackerman than a servo that puts the links close together (Kimbrough Medium inner holes, Tamiya or Xray inner holes.) The rule of thumb is that a servo that puts the ball studs close together but spaced away from the servo horn will have less Ackerman than one that spaces them far apart and close to the servo horn. Ackerman changes will have the same effect as changing toe with more Ackerman being effectively toeing the wheels out and less toeing them in, but will not affect the straight-line attitude of the car.

Turning Circle / Steering Angle:

In offroad or even touring car you can set up the car to use the full angle of the steering 100% of the time. You will almost certainly not be able to do this in 1/12 scale. It goes without saying that as you turn up your steering angle you will gain steering often to the point of the car being undriveable. The quickest way to set the steering correctly is to set the sub-trim in your radio such that the car tracks straight and the servo horn is straight up and down, then set the endpoints equally such that they don't quite hit the steering bump-stops, then turn down the dual-rate or total throw from there. A typical starting point is somewhere between 45 and 60% of the total steering throw, or a 4-5' turning circle.
SOMEONE ELSE DO THE REAR TUNING SECTION! AND A TROUBLESHOOTING TREE! FEEL FREE TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHANGES!

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Old 07-14-2006, 03:21 AM   #19321
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Originally Posted by nordheim
Jason, what spur/pinion and rollout do you use the most? I know it depends on the track layout, etc. However, I am just curious as to what you typically run.

i run a 88 spur and 29 pinion w/ 1.9 inch diameter tires.(jaco wraps)
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:52 AM   #19322
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Originally Posted by dr_hfuhuhurr
Thanks for the info. Anyone have the length that has to be cut off or final length?

Blake
I cut the post to 22mm, however, the lower spring still looks like it's still a little more compressed than the upper spring. I have yet to run this car and am building it for this fall/winter season. Going to try it out the way it is and adjust it if I need to.

As for the pod plates being of equal height, I noticed the left side pod plate was shiny on the top and bottom and looked as if they were sanded down a little. Luckily, they were both the same height and square.
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Old 07-14-2006, 05:38 AM   #19323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup
sorry carlos, was not talking abot p2. tell clark to set a date for regionals.
I talked to Lou Laduca and he said the only thing that is being discussed right now is the battery issue.The date has been set to Oct. 14 and 15.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P2
I'm back!
Did you check Jlap for the results from last weekends race?
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Old 07-14-2006, 05:47 AM   #19324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mush104
does anyone have a setup thats good for med bite for a L4

There are great setups to be found for your L4 here. Excellent tips for building and optioning the car, as well.







Again, has anyone had any problems with wobbly, out of true fronts in the CRC High Rollers? I got 3 pairs this week and none of them run true (the wheel, not the tire).
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Old 07-14-2006, 07:16 AM   #19325
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Hi,

at the moment I'm thinking about starting 1/12th for the winter carpet season as I don't see much fun driving our TC rockets on a carpet track with rubber tires.

I looked at 3 cars:
Asso RC12L4
Yokomo RC12L4Y
CRC Carpet Knife 3.2

I know, two of them are T-Bar cars and one is a link car. Which one would you suggest for Mod and why?
I think the Yokomo and the CRC could be the best choices as both of them already have some hop-ups already installed (lowered pods,...). What do you think?
And which hop-ups would be recommend or even necessary.

Thanks
Cheers
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:10 AM   #19326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy-932
Hi,

at the moment I'm thinking about starting 1/12th for the winter carpet season as I don't see much fun driving our TC rockets on a carpet track with rubber tires.

I looked at 3 cars:
Asso RC12L4
Yokomo RC12L4Y
CRC Carpet Knife 3.2

I know, two of them are T-Bar cars and one is a link car. Which one would you suggest for Mod and why?
I think the Yokomo and the CRC could be the best choices as both of them already have some hop-ups already installed (lowered pods,...). What do you think?
And which hop-ups would be recommend or even necessary.

Thanks
Cheers
Chris

The L4 and Carpet Knife are great on carpet. The Yokomo is an asphalt only car with a super flexy chassis. It is a real mess on carpet.

If you want a tricked out T-bar car look at the CRC T-Fource. If you get one just make sure you remove all the side spring stuff and run normal tweal screws with an AE .075" t-bar.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:33 AM   #19327
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If you're trying to decide between a t-bar and link car you really need to consider the track that you normally run on.

It's been my experience that it's much easier to get a link car to work on a bumpy track. The t-bar cars seem to still be really good on a smooth track.
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Old 07-14-2006, 12:10 PM   #19328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosG.
Did you check Jlap for the results from last weekends race?
31, 08:00....you almost got your 32. WOW David Hall 32, 08:14...you need to step it up See you in the moring and bring your canopy
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Old 07-14-2006, 01:27 PM   #19329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
If you're trying to decide between a t-bar and link car you really need to consider the track that you normally run on.

It's been my experience that it's much easier to get a link car to work on a bumpy track. The t-bar cars seem to still be really good on a smooth track.
Agreed-the Champs last year was very bumpy and the CRC 3.2r (and Rev4) were top of the field in stock, masters and Mod.

I love my T-fource though and since I have been playing with battery placement its become even better and opened up a whole new line of tunability.
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Old 07-14-2006, 02:38 PM   #19330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
There are great setups to be found for your L4 here. Excellent tips for building and optioning the car, as well.







Again, has anyone had any problems with wobbly, out of true fronts in the CRC High Rollers? I got 3 pairs this week and none of them run true (the wheel, not the tire).
Try them with the flanged bearings, this made mine better.

By the way, are you the same Apexspeed that runs the full size single seater race car board http://www.apexspeed.com/ ?
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Old 07-14-2006, 02:43 PM   #19331
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Thanks for the tip—I'll try that.




And yes, I own and manage ApexSpeed.com.
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:46 PM   #19332
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flanged bearings will make the wheel run true but will widen the track width of the car.i always try my best to get them running true and if they wont then i run a flanged bearing on the outside only and it does the trick.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:41 PM   #19333
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Protc3 - Are you ready for the duel...1/12th and 19T Sedan at ten paces
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:47 PM   #19334
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two newbie questions for a 12l4 outdoor asphalt.

1. What is the rear wheelbase dimension. I'm using a 2nd hand car and noticed that the right side is shorter from the center hole on the bottom pod plate to the outside of the right side rear tire than from that same whole to the outer left side. That seems wrong. So I need to add shimms to the left side. But I need to know what my total rear wheelbase should be.

2. Does thicker dampler lube on the disks add or remove steering. I was told it just "flattens the car out, making more stable" I didn't know it did anything to the steering. I need less steering..and i put some old skool Bolink goo on there that pretty thick.

was that wrong?? I thought it would help for dealing with a transition from a banked oval to the flat infield.
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Old 07-14-2006, 10:34 PM   #19335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAL
two newbie questions for a 12l4 outdoor asphalt.

1. What is the rear wheelbase dimension. I'm using a 2nd hand car and noticed that the right side is shorter from the center hole on the bottom pod plate to the outside of the right side rear tire than from that same whole to the outer left side. That seems wrong. So I need to add shimms to the left side. But I need to know what my total rear wheelbase should be.

2. Does thicker dampler lube on the disks add or remove steering. I was told it just "flattens the car out, making more stable" I didn't know it did anything to the steering. I need less steering..and i put some old skool Bolink goo on there that pretty thick.

was that wrong?? I thought it would help for dealing with a transition from a banked oval to the flat infield.
Maximum width is 172 mm, and you are correct in that the measurement from center to wheel should be equal from side to side. You need to add shims to the right side or remove some from the left, or a combination of the two to get the full width centered. "bank to flat..." You must be running at SoCal

In general, anything that stiffens the rear adds steering. I'm not too experienced with discs but I would try lighter fluid on the discs. Perhaps someone else could suggest what weight might be good.
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