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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 01-26-2006, 07:11 AM   #17086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-C
I wonder if anyone there was tempted to run a thinner chassis to help with the bumpier than normal track conditions?
I know of at least one mod 12th driver that switched to a thinner chassis this past year at Cleveland, but that was due to the lack of traction compared to previous years. He was trying to use the flex in the chassis to create traction, as you would on asphalt.
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:22 AM   #17087
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That was a great post Nick. Lots of good points.

My take on the t-bar argument is that drivers of t-bar cars can generally get setup to the surface faster. Especially on asphalt due to lack of grip. Carpet is a big equalizer since you have so much grip.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:14 AM   #17088
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James35,

I took a second look and I can kinda see how it could cause some binding. I guess the shims I have are small enough in diameter that I have not run in to this.

I was thinking that maybe you had made a mistake that I had in moving the suspension with the wheel off to see how freely the king pin slides through the pivot balls (both top and bottom).

For the past two weeks all I have done is fiddle with things on my car trying to get a better understanding of how the parts work together and what I can do to make them fit or move better. I have spent most of that time on the front suspension and now have it freed up so it works properly.

These cars look so simple but the detail work it takes to get them right is amazing.

Greg
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Old 01-26-2006, 09:04 AM   #17089
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how would (accidentaly) installing the upper eyelet up-side-down affect handling?
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:33 AM   #17090
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in my experience with the t bar cars,i found pretty much what adrian said.they seem to be very easy to set up and they seem smoothe.i love the idea of the link car.i like isolating the suspension action.it seemed to me that the link cars were much more aggressive and i think it is due to having to use a heavier shock spring than a t bar car because all of the spring tension is at the shock instead of being shared by the 2.with more spring tension up high changes the rate at which the weight is transfered front to rear and rear to front which is what i think the difference in feel comes from.this is also why being that i mostly run asphalt only is why i prefer the T bar car.from what i hear though,they both work real well on both surfaces.i will be experimenting with a link style setup with the same shock setup and an extention spring below to see if i can run the same center shock spring as a T bar car.i will let you know how it works out.
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:19 PM   #17091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoking motor..
Note I respect your knowledge and your probably faster driver than me.
But please look at what I am saying.

It is not a live axle car !!!! (live axle are a stupidly different ball game! and always considered to use eliptical springs,Panhard rods.)
When it uses links or de dion supension it is referred to as a trialing link supension or an de dion axle.Yes I study automotive engineering and have messed around with kit cars etc.
You also need to consider the tyre as the most effiecent point for the damping and springing to occur that why single seater race cars use tall tyres (inflated with nitrogen to ten to 15 psi) and very stiff supension so they can transfer the wings down force to the tyre contact patches. So you can do stupids thing such as pull 4g in braking, in a formula renault when braking from a 160 mph 30 mph in less tham 50meters. This is just data of a black box.
With heavier race cars such as rally cars and touring cars the rules are different and the reliance of Down force is much less so the tend to let the supension do the work rather than the tyres thus the use of low profile tyre the make the car more reponsive in terms of changing direction as they have a reduced slip angle.
It is very much akin to a go kart (t-bar) or a trailing link setup (link car). Any of these cars can be adjusted to cope with roll rate, i.e tweak springs on the carpet knife and the t-fource, changing the t-bar thickness will control roll rate. Chassis thickness won't it but may effect the effiency of the supension by absorbing the bumps of the car, that why you use an flexible chassis. this will not effect the roll rate.
Any way the roll rate is controled by the side damping of the plate or tubes no the fore aft damping of the center shock. That controls the fore and aft transfer of the cars mass around the point of inertia in the accelarating and braking.
True that in the Automotive world, this is not truly a live axle, but is always referred to as such in the R/C world.

Unfortunately fullscale engineering principles do not always equate well to the r/c world. I know many very talented Auto/Mechanical Engineers who are without a clue when it comes to R/C Vehicle Dynamics. In actuality, the T-bar, or the link system is what deals with bumps on the track. It's not theory, it's fact. On a bumpy track you can actually watch the cars work, and see the suspension in action. I've been doing this for quite a while and have had cars with various rear suspension designs, and each has it's own strengths and weaknesses, but each also readily displays it's charcteristics on the track. I prefer a car with little to no chassis flex, that can be tuned separately fore and, side to side. I understand that the center shock primarily controls fore and aft weight transfer, but oddly when you soften it up, it absorbs bumps better.
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:36 PM   #17092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
I prefer a car with little to no chassis flex, that can be tuned separately fore and, side to side. I understand that the center shock primarily controls fore and aft weight transfer, but oddly when you soften it up, it absorbs bumps better.
Masami Hirosaka, Mike Blackstock and Mike Lufaso disagree with you

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Old 01-26-2006, 01:44 PM   #17093
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Oddly, Masami has more tan than both of them.
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:47 PM   #17094
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hey jason sent you pm... let me know when I can get something. Thanks
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:48 PM   #17095
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Yeah, Mike and Mike are northern boys. The only light they get is flourecent from their carpet tracks...lol!
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:25 PM   #17096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Masami Hirosaka, Mike Blackstock and Mike Lufaso disagree with you

2004 IFMAR Worlds Winners



Yokomo RC12L4Y Worlds Car (A.K.A. Flexy Flyer)


Yeah but none of us have their level of skill either
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:30 PM   #17097
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I doubt how many stiff chassis was used in 2004 Worlds 1/12 A-main, not even one. Results speak for itself. Stiff chassis works on carpet but not on asphalt(most of the time). As you said, real world automotive enginnering doesn't always work on our little cars.
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:34 PM   #17098
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I bet real world technology would work just fine if we could get it small enough and light enough. I mean, we are running springs only up front. Imagine micro oil shocks, and tiny anti-roll bars, etc...
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Old 01-26-2006, 02:38 PM   #17099
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T-bar is a spring, spring can be designed in many ways, not just coils.
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:00 PM   #17100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
I bet real world technology would work just fine if we could get it small enough and light enough. I mean, we are running springs only up front. Imagine micro oil shocks, and tiny anti-roll bars, etc...
The big problem that we have with scaled down cars is the fact that the molecules do not scale down with the pieces. Oil dampers are about as small as they can really get and still work feasibly... Oil dampers that small would not do so good as the molecule of the oil is still just as big as it was when we started. Maybe if we were able to find another fluid with such damping capabilities... WTF do i know... I stayed at a Holiday Inn but couldn't sleep...
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