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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 01-25-2006, 08:14 PM   #17071
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Quick question for the Speedmerchant drivers,

Does the Rev.3 come with the large D-ring axel (i.e. like the 12L4) or does it come with smothing else ???

Thanks,
Chris....
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:56 PM   #17072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoking motor..
Note I respect your knowledge and your probably faster driver than me.
But please look at what I am saying.
Before I jump in and make myself look like an idiot I would like to say that I respect your obvious knowledge of automotive engineering. It takes a lot to grasp many of these concepts and you apprear to have your arms around them quite well.

My dad was an amazing engineer yet he couldn't understand why 12th scale cars looked the way they did. He like many others felt that full scale automobiles had the strongest design concepts and that 12th scale designers should pay more attention to them. The biggest thing my father and most engineers fail to understand is really the easiest of concepts. Call it what you will KISS or Ockam's Razor.

12th scale cars move at speeds of 30-45mph and weigh in around 1 3/4 pounds at maximum. Do the math, that's an F1 car per say that moves at 360-540mph yet only weighs 21 pounds. How on earth could you begin to compare the two?

Your example of tire density to create traction also seems a little skewed to me. What you are talking about is generating surface traction, full scale race cars using air pressure for tuning the same way we use foam density. They are not creating dampening at all, simply controlling the amount of physical traction to the surface.

The compression strength of our wheels seems to be quite high considering the load they endure and really should not be considered as part of the equation. The issue here is that if you take the load being applied to the tire and transfer that through your suspension system to the chassis flat materials will begin to flex. Think about how much force is being put on that chassis plate after the lever effect of the rear end. The only good way to overcome this flexing is to make the material thick enough or use material with higher torsional properties until this critical flex point has been overcome. If you allow this twisting you are just turning the whole car into a T-bar and allowing the chassis to provide spring effect totally unchecked and with no adjustability at all.

I have never liked the idea of a T-bar and have plenty of experience with them. You are relying on a hunk of fiberglass that flexes to remain consistent. Every time that fiberglass flexes it's properties will change and generate inconsistency. By using a T-bar you have created what I call a "minimum effect" to the car, no matter what you change there is no way to reduce the amount of tension side to side or front to back to a value less than what the T-bar is providing. The only real solution is to run an extremely soft T-bar and add springs to fine tune tension side to side along with the center shock. By moving to the link design you have no "minimum effect" in the car at all. The lack of a "minimum effect" allows you to maintain complete control over side to side and front to back tension with a much higher degree of consistency.

At any rate this is a great discussion with some interesting points being made.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:58 PM   #17073
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hey guys,i finished the assembly on the display model of our new DB12.heres a few pics
Attached Thumbnails
1/12 forum-db12.jpg   1/12 forum-db12-bottom.jpg   1/12 forum-db12-rear.jpg  
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:03 PM   #17074
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Looks really good Jason. It's a t-bar car though, Nick-C will have your head!

Just kidding Nick, have nothing but love for ya...
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:04 PM   #17075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grub_Maker
Quick question for the Speedmerchant drivers,

Does the Rev.3 come with the large D-ring axel (i.e. like the 12L4) or does it come with smothing else ???

Thanks,
Chris....
Chris,

Are you looking at a used Rev.3 or did you mean to say Rev.4?

The Rev.4 includes the big ring diff from IRS. I am not sure if the Rev.3 included the IRS parts or not.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:06 PM   #17076
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The rev 3 comes with the older style 12l3 diff out of the box...
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:09 PM   #17077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperform Racing
Looks really good Jason. It's a t-bar car though, Nick-C will have your head!

Just kidding Nick, have nothing but love for ya...
Down with the T-bar! RAWR =)

All design concept debates aside the car looks great.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:11 PM   #17078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperform Racing
The rev 3 comes with the older style 12l3 diff out of the box...
Very cool, I was "away" for the Rev.3 period of time. Some would contest that I am in fact still as good as "away" =)
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:12 PM   #17079
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thanks Lino. easy on me nick.

all kidding aside,nick did make some good points there.however,there is no perfect suspension system for the 1/12ths.both are different and both have there high points.there will be better systems brought to the market.with as many people such as nick and everyone in this discussion,someone,somewhere is absorbing all of this and is trying to figure out the perfect system.i have been working on new things and will be testing new suspension systems on these cars as well.we all want it perfect.for now i prefer the feel of the T bar cars.just my personal preference.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:15 PM   #17080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
we all want it perfect.for now i prefer the feel of the T bar cars.just my personal preference.
That's one of the best points that have been made in this thread so far. If the car doesn't feel solid and fast to you then it's going to be a slug. Every racer needs to run what they are confortable driving and tuning.

I can't wait to see what the future holds honestly. It seems like there has been a great interest in 12th scale over the past few years and that's what really pushes innovation.
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:09 PM   #17081
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Jason, the car looks great. Glad to see you're offering a full kit. It should hopefully attract a new group to an already great car.
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:44 PM   #17082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg45231
James35,
I just took a look at what you mentioned above and I don't think that your binding would have come from the upper eyelet, as it moves in conjunction with the upper arm and the wheel. The only point at which the king pin moves through the eyelet is the lower arm. If it did move through the upper one, the king pin would hit the inside of your wheel.
Greg
Greg, I wasn't referring to the kingpin sliding up and down inside the assembly. I was referring to the full suspension assembly moving up and down. Did you click on the attachment in my post. A picture is worth a 1000 words
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:12 PM   #17083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-C
Chris,

Are you looking at a used Rev.3 or did you mean to say Rev.4?

The Rev.4 includes the big ring diff from IRS. I am not sure if the Rev.3 included the IRS parts or not.
It's a Rev.3
Thanks,
Chris
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:13 PM   #17084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
hey guys,i finished the assembly on the display model of our new DB12.heres a few pics
Great looking car Jason...I can't wait to get one
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:14 PM   #17085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperform Racing
The rev 3 comes with the older style 12l3 diff out of the box...
Thanks,
Chris....
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