R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-24-2006, 08:06 PM   #17041
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 83
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Remember when your mom asked you, "if your friend jumped off a bridge would you?".

Just because the XYZ Donkey Punch 12 has a 5mm pocketed chassis that doesn't mean that's a good idea.

The stock RC 12L4 with a .090" carbon chassis still wins every were. Paul Lemieux won Cleveland with a 2mm lower chassis on his FK05 and won the Novak race with a T2 that was all 2.5mm. Carpet racers have this stiffer is better mentality. This is true to a point but there is a point of diminishing returns where the a thicker chassis is not stiffer and just weighs more.

.090" carbon (~2.25mm) weighs 24% less than 3mm carbon. You can get quality 2mm, 2.25mm and 2.5mm high modulus quasi-isotropic carbon that is way stiffer than many commonly available sheets of imported 3mm carbon.

There are improvements to be made such as lowered pods, slightly longer pods for more gear options, front track width, wheelbase and better front end designs. Lets concentrate on 1/12th design aspects that generate real improvements and stay away from lead sleds made from 1/4" thick carbon.
Adrian,
The recent 1/12th kits I've purchased over the last several years have all been cars with 2.8mm - 3.00mm chassis. All were Trinity cars that came this way out of the box. I've never switched to anything since, irregardless of the weight. Received a replacement chassis for the Spashett car that was only .085. Didn't like it at all (and the old one went back on). Ntenswepon is right on the money about the facilities too --> we're not seeing any bumpy or dirty tracks anymore. As far as what others are running --> I'm pretty sure that Jari won 19t in Cleveland (and just missed the 1/12th mod A main) with a handmade car and chassis thickness that exceeds 3mm. Everyone can pick their own poison, but I'll stick to thick.

John
fuelgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 08:11 PM   #17042
Tech Fanatic
 
darnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 906
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Just curious- How much heavier are our 3700/3800's vs. 2000's and our new mod motors (Ti3, Checkpoint,V2,Shock) vs. D4's? I'm just wondering if these (cells/motors) have anything to do with 12ths being over weight, especially when you consider how much lighter servos,ESC's and RX's (in general) have gotten (of course this doesn't include the 2.4Ghz systems).
darnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 08:37 PM   #17043
Tech Master
 
burgboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Da 'Burg
Posts: 1,247
Trader Rating: 70 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darnold
Just curious- How much heavier are our 3700/3800's vs. 2000's and our new mod motors (Ti3, Checkpoint,V2,Shock) vs. D4's? I'm just wondering if these (cells/motors) have anything to do with 12ths being over weight, especially when you consider how much lighter servos,ESC's and RX's (in general) have gotten (of course this doesn't include the 2.4Ghz systems).
check cheapbatterypacks.com to compare the weight specs in the "loose cells" category. also, the pics on this thread gave me the inspiration to shorten my speedo,pt,& servo leads. use lightweight bodies with light coats of paint. use maximum 14ga wire for batteries and 16ga for motor leads and make them as short as possible. trim or eliminate battery bars. I run low front arms so that I am able to run small tires. as a result, I dont traction roll so I did away with my "roll over antenna". etc,etc,etc. If you look hard enough, you can trim some serious weight..... little by little! I invite you to search this thread for pictures of some of these guys rides. They are simply genius!!!
Thanks OD & how about some more pics?!?!?!?
__________________
Got Droop???
Speed Passion....Speed Power....Serpent America/Desoto Racing.
burgboyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 09:23 PM   #17044
Tech Champion
 
Still Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,016
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noline
I have a question about front suspensions I have a 12L4 and Im not sure wich front end to use the old school or the current one on the 12L4 wich one would provide more steering just curious and what is the difference between the two any help would be greatly appreciate it and for the old school front end are there any shims I could use to lower the front end is there a part#
Deleted post. I answered the wrong question...Oops!
__________________
Constantly evolving CRC WGT and WGT-R/T...Carpet & Asphalt...All thanks to Team CRC.

Last edited by JRX-S Bill; 01-24-2006 at 10:26 PM.
Still Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 10:04 PM   #17045
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 248
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe64
Any guys from CRC on here? When can we get an update CRC website?
We updated the scrolling news section today. If all goes well, we should have pictures of the new items on the site tomorrow afternoon.
Team CRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 12:05 AM   #17046
Tech Addict
 
James35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 748
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Putting the weight issue aside.... I NEVER understood why anyone would want a chassis that flexes (even on asphalt). In the real world of racing, the chassis's are made as solid as possible and the dampening is controlled properly though the suspension components.

Last edited by James35; 01-25-2006 at 12:19 AM.
James35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 01:04 AM   #17047
Tech Adept
 
Nick-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 181
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
Putting the weight issue aside.... I NEVER understood why anyone would want a chassis that flexes (even on asphalt). In the real world of racing, the chassis's are made as solid as possible and the dampening is controlled properly though the suspension components.
I would have to agree with that thinking. Why on earth would you want to put the consistency of your car in the hands of something that flexes?

(cough, t-bar)
Nick-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 02:27 AM   #17048
Tech Champion
 
JayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 12TH-MAN COUNTRY
Posts: 6,803
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

That's been my thinking all along since I've been in the hobby (running sedan & 1/12). We have all these suspension components that work great I might add but on top of that we want the main chassis to flex also. I don't get it. I also know the argument of a flexy chassis generating more grip but to me it's just another set-up option that creates more inconsistancy to overcome. I could be totally off the mark though...
__________________
R C 3 G R A F I X _ F U S I O N . G R A P H I X _ S E A T T L E - R/C - R A C E R S _ E M E R A L D C I T Y R C . C O M

A E - 12R5.2 _ S M - REV8 PRO

Last edited by JayBee; 01-25-2006 at 12:09 PM.
JayBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 06:43 AM   #17049
Tech Elite
 
Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 4,582
Default

if the track surface is quite rough the flex could mellow some of that out by keeping the car down on the track more instead of skidding across the surface.
__________________
Mason McCombs
NewRed Hobbies & Indoor Facility
Off-Road, Dirt Oval, Crawlers & Pullers
Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 10:34 AM   #17050
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,813
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelgun
Adrian,
The recent 1/12th kits I've purchased over the last several years have all been cars with 2.8mm - 3.00mm chassis. All were Trinity cars that came this way out of the box. I've never switched to anything since, irregardless of the weight. Received a replacement chassis for the Spashett car that was only .085. Didn't like it at all (and the old one went back on). Ntenswepon is right on the money about the facilities too --> we're not seeing any bumpy or dirty tracks anymore. As far as what others are running --> I'm pretty sure that Jari won 19t in Cleveland (and just missed the 1/12th mod A main) with a handmade car and chassis thickness that exceeds 3mm. Everyone can pick their own poison, but I'll stick to thick.

John

just to hopefully help out here,there are many grades of carbon fiber.there is different ways of laying the fibers and also high modulous fibers that allow you to use thinner materials and acheive the rigidity you are looking for.alot of the manufacturers use component grade carbon fiber that has the fibers layed at 0 and 90 degrees due to its lower cost.it has excellent compression
strength but not as much torsional strength as quasi iso tropic(fibers layed at 0-90-45 degrees).component grade also has a tendncy to tweak easily being that it does not have much memory.then you can get into high modulous quasi iso tropic that is extremely rigid.for instance,a 2mm panel 12x12 will exceed the torsional strength of a 3mm panel of the same size.there is alot more to the materials than the thickness.weight is a big issue in 1/12th due to it being 4 cell.any weight savings you get it a big plus.if you can save weight and have a more rigid chassis than you are in good shape.as for using chassis flex as a tuning option,yes,it can help you alot on low bite off camber tracks that you cant seem to get traction.i always run my stiff chassis on asphalt because it feels good and i dont have any traction issues.if i did need it i would not be opposed to it.

im sure that this guy has done alot of testing with his 3mm chassis and if he feels it improved the car,that is a plus.maybe that car runs better with that roll center change.i never did any testing on the black widow but its nice to see the interest in 1/12th.as for chassis thickness,it all depends on which material has been used to consider rigidity and there is such a thing as called overkill.there is a point you reach where you just exceeded what is necesary.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 11:47 AM   #17051
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,064
Default

This question is proably answered dozens of times. On Mike Blackstocks car he uses grey eyelets for the upper camber link. Does anyone know the part number for these ? Mike said he had all that BRP had. He thought they were made by Dubro. Thanks
Chris Reilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 12:06 PM   #17052
Tech Champion
 
JayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 12TH-MAN COUNTRY
Posts: 6,803
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by protc3
just to hopefully help out here,there are many grades of carbon fiber.there is different ways of laying the fibers and also high modulous fibers that allow you to use thinner materials and acheive the rigidity you are looking for.alot of the manufacturers use component grade carbon fiber that has the fibers layed at 0 and 90 degrees due to its lower cost.it has excellent compression
strength but not as much torsional strength as quasi iso tropic(fibers layed at 0-90-45 degrees).component grade also has a tendncy to tweak easily being that it does not have much memory.then you can get into high modulous quasi iso tropic that is extremely rigid.for instance,a 2mm panel 12x12 will exceed the torsional strength of a 3mm panel of the same size.there is alot more to the materials than the thickness.weight is a big issue in 1/12th due to it being 4 cell.any weight savings you get it a big plus.if you can save weight and have a more rigid chassis than you are in good shape.as for using chassis flex as a tuning option,yes,it can help you alot on low bite off camber tracks that you cant seem to get traction.i always run my stiff chassis on asphalt because it feels good and i dont have any traction issues.if i did need it i would not be opposed to it.

im sure that this guy has done alot of testing with his 3mm chassis and if he feels it improved the car,that is a plus.maybe that car runs better with that roll center change.i never did any testing on the black widow but its nice to see the interest in 1/12th.as for chassis thickness,it all depends on which material has been used to consider rigidity and there is such a thing as called overkill.there is a point you reach where you just exceeded what is necesary.
So which grade of carbon fiber are you using with the DB12's?
__________________
R C 3 G R A F I X _ F U S I O N . G R A P H I X _ S E A T T L E - R/C - R A C E R S _ E M E R A L D C I T Y R C . C O M

A E - 12R5.2 _ S M - REV8 PRO

Last edited by JayBee; 01-25-2006 at 12:27 PM.
JayBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 12:13 PM   #17053
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,064
Default

Here is a pic. I know it's a older pic but you can see the upper outer camber link. It's grey. I need a part number if anyone knows. Thanks

Chris Reilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 12:35 PM   #17054
Tech Fanatic
 
crimson eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 841
Send a message via ICQ to crimson eagle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee
That's been my thinking all along since I've been in the hobby (running sedan & 1/12). We have all these suspension components that work great I might add but on top of that we want the main chassis to flex also. I don't get it. I also know the argument of a flexy chassis generating more grip but to me it's just another set-up option that creates more inconsistancy to overcome. I could be totally off the mark though...
Jaybee,

My thick chassis t-fource was great for stock asphalt all last year but I was driving on smooth if undulating tracks.

Chris
crimson eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 12:41 PM   #17055
Tech Elite
 
Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 4,582
Default

Chris, they look like they could be one of Dubro's many ball link ends.. here's their online info about all their ball links.
http://www.shopatron.com/index/101.0.5176.5163.0.0.0
__________________
Mason McCombs
NewRed Hobbies & Indoor Facility
Off-Road, Dirt Oval, Crawlers & Pullers
Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (1 members and 2 guests)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:58 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0