R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 10-28-2016, 12:43 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: 1/12 forum
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: fenton06
This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

Print Wikipost

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-22-2005, 01:31 AM   #16411
Moderator
 
Pro ten Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Druten/Holland (Europe)
Posts: 1,658
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Thumbs up

Mark, I just read your entire setup log. WOW!
That's just the type of information I was looking for!
Really, really impressive!
__________________
http://www.rc-lemans.de/
Pro ten Holland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 07:05 AM   #16412
Tech Fanatic
 
crimson eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 841
Send a message via ICQ to crimson eagle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapmaster6000
Traction!
Guys, another disappointing evening. I got a hold of a bottle of Niftech to try tonight at my local track. This track uses pretty much all TQ traction products, but the 12th scale cars are not doing so well. We have the latest rubber backed CRC Fast Track carpet that is now two months old. For an added fact, I took my temp gun to the carpet surface and found that it was 60F. I cleaned a set of Jaco purple front wraps and double pink rear wraps with a rag and motor spray to start off with a base line tire. I applied the Nifteck fully to the rears and 50% to the fronts. It evaporated quite quickly, like less then 5 minutes. So I re-applied the same amounts and again, it evaporated in about 5 minutes. The car ran quite well for the first 4 laps, then continued to push more with every lap. Finally at 3 minutes, it had rediculous push with a uncontrollabe oversteer "on throttle". The tires were a gooey mess up front and rather normal looking in the rears. I took the same car and battery back to the pits, cleaned the tires, and literally used WD-40 as traction sauce. Full rears and 50% fronts. Wipped them 10 minutes later and tossed the car back out there. It actualy lasted about 4 minutes before it was awful to drive.

Needless to say, I withdrew from the nights racing as did the entire feild of 12th scalers. Un able to complete a run due to uncontrollable traction conditions.

If I was new to 12th scale, I would have given up long ago. But I have about 20 years doing this and I have never seen this before.

I guess that I am asking if anyone out here races with other scales with multiple traction sauces being used, if you have found that magic bullet to cope with this?

Does anyone think that additional heat in the building and/or some box fans to circulate air after hours would help evaporate the TQ out of the carpet?

Brian,

i tried the Jaco wraps for about 3 runs, I cannot deal with them, they change way too much during the run. I was actually thinking about trying them again with niftech to see if they are any better, after your story I don't think so. I always end up coming back to standard purple fronts and standard white rears. Sauce them 3 or 4 times with niftech the first time you go out and I sauce full fronts. wipe them off thoroughly 1 heat before you go out.

Chris
crimson eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 07:06 AM   #16413
Tech Fanatic
 
crimson eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 841
Send a message via ICQ to crimson eagle
Default

Hi all,

I lost a QC2 last night anyone know where I need to send it for fix / replace? A phone # would be great too.

Thanks.
crimson eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 07:09 AM   #16414
Tech Elite
 
theisgroup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,191
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

http://www.rc10.com/shusting/Catalog...vicing_lrp.htm
__________________
yang lai

Team Tamale | Team Tekin | RCAmerica | Speedmerchant | Speedzone RC | EA Motorsports | Ko Propo USA | eXpress Motorsports | Parma/PSE
theisgroup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 08:33 AM   #16415
Tech Master
 
stormperson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: MA
Posts: 1,185
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to stormperson
Default

Here is my $.02 about niftec...

Its great for super high bite, and thats about it. The only time I have run it was at cleveland back with the old non rubber backed carpet when it would get higher and higher bite until the mains, now with the newer carpet (ie the past 2 years) there isnt really a need since the bite doesnt get as high, it levels off at a good level.

Also, whenever i have used tq products they seem to basically work like sugar water in that they make the tires sticky, but not soft like paragon, Jack the Gripper is the same way. Not all compounds create traction in the same way.

For 12th scale I would suggest using what everyone else uses since it will probably work the best, and normally thats the best policy or else the track turns to grease (i remember hearing that trackside had that problem with everyone running different compounds). And just let it soak in longer, if you really are having problems with no grip at the end of the run try using tire tweak, although normally i just use it for asphalt.

Also as far as tires, i dont think thats it, while i have never run wraps (my car has always been dialed with parma purple and grays) that shouldnt be the issue. You also might be cutting them too small for the actual foam to work. I defently wouldnt motor spray them if you are losing grip though...
__________________
R/C Excitement Special Projects Coordinator
Kwik | Speedmerchant | Parma PSE | KO Propo
Team Pickles
stormperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 09:51 AM   #16416
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 92
Default

I've been running Niftech for about a year with my Tfource and have not had any traction issues with it. We have the new rubber backed carpet and I have used purple/grey and purple/pink with very good results.

The only thing I have noticed lately is with the increase in racing and more rubber getting put down on the track, my fronts tend to get a little side wall build up that needs to cleaned off. I guess that could also come from running a wide line on occasion.

I have seen guys use motor spray to clean their tires and everyone of them comes back complaining of not having enough traction.

Greg
Greg45231 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 10:17 AM   #16417
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK
how do you cope with the inconsistency & fragile nature of the 2 tweak ball cap stick, i 've forgotten its name
There's actually nothing fragile or inconsistent about it.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 10:23 AM   #16418
Tech Fanatic
 
crimson eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 841
Send a message via ICQ to crimson eagle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup

Great thanks
crimson eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 10:25 AM   #16419
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 92
Default

If you tend to have problems with breaking the side links on the CK then I would check the center pivot area and make sure it's not loose. The only time I had problems was when it loosened up and allowed the rear pod to move causing the links to be broken.

Greg
Greg45231 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 10:34 AM   #16420
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK
I didnt know that US made CRC got its way to UK. where is the exact location of the track in Reading

how do you cope with the inconsistency & fragile nature of the 2 tweak ball cap stick, i 've forgotten its name
LOL........you should go to www.teamspeedmerchant.com
DLM2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 11:06 AM   #16421
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg45231
If you tend to have problems with breaking the side links on the CK then I would check the center pivot area and make sure it's not loose. The only time I had problems was when it loosened up and allowed the rear pod to move causing the links to be broken.

Greg
You can also go to the adjustable links, which are far more durable. I believe CRC sells a complete set, or you could just piece them together from Dubro parts.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 11:07 AM   #16422
Tech Elite
 
nashrcracer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LA - Lower Antioch
Posts: 4,849
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

well don't worry ground effects paragon is coming back they just ran out of the 8 oz cans for a bit. I can breath now
__________________
RC50 As you come into this world, something else is also born. You begin your life, and it begins a journey towards you. It moves slowly, but it never stops. Wherever you go, whatever path you take, it will follow never faster, never slower, always coming. You will run, it will walk. You will rest, it will not. One day, you will linger in the same place too long you will sit too still, or sleep too deep. And when, too late, you rise to go, you will notice a second shadow next to yours. Your life will then be over.
nashrcracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 11:12 AM   #16423
Moderator
 
Uneke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 437
Send a message via AIM to Uneke Send a message via Yahoo to Uneke
Default

I just have to say that Marks blog is the most informative thing i've read in a while.

What kind of 19T motor do most of you prefer to run and how do you set them up in terms of brushes and springs?

I've run the Chameleon and the Reedy both with 767 brushes and red springs for the Trinity and stock springs for the Reedy. They both run pretty good, but not as good as the Atlas motor which i can't seem to get my hands on.
Uneke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 12:43 PM   #16424
HK
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg45231
If you tend to have problems with breaking the side links on the CK then I would check the center pivot area and make sure it's not loose. The only time I had problems was when it loosened up and allowed the rear pod to move causing the links to be broken.

Greg
I had the same problem when running the CK, the loose plastic ball cap links cause the rear pod to move, i guess my problem was the harsher surface of asphalt and vibration caused the links to loosen up after few runs and battery hold down method bounces and isn't good for asphalt. Also the 4 cell CK chassis is a lot wider than any other car causing the both sides to scratch the ground. I think this will not happen on carpet.

because there is no carpet tracks here in my area to run my Carpetknife
HK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 01:27 PM   #16425
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,603
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK
I had the same problem when running the CK, the loose plastic ball cap links cause the rear pod to move, i guess my problem was the harsher surface of asphalt and vibration caused the links to loosen up after few runs and battery hold down method bounces and isn't good for asphalt. Also the 4 cell CK chassis is a lot wider than any other car causing the both sides to scratch the ground. I think this will not happen on carpet.

because there is no carpet tracks here in my area to run my Carpetknife
You could take a look at the Rev. 4, it has the NARROWEST chassis available as well as the shortest front overhang. It also comes with adjustable links that have a screw on the end which can adjust the tension of the link around the ball. A very trick set-up.
__________________
Team CRC, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to the forum mig rod Electric Off-Road 1 01-05-2008 05:23 PM
hi i need help and im new to the forum racer4 Rookie Zone 4 01-21-2007 02:37 PM
Why is this forum listed under the On Road Forum? sport10 Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 01-11-2007 08:06 AM
Forum Changes... futureal Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 3 10-28-2002 09:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:23 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0