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Old 01-29-2006, 12:07 PM   #13171
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Thanks for your advice Adrian and Paul. Much appreciated. And just to clarify, with regard to the roll centre changes, what is meant to happen if you raise or lower the roll centres (front and rear)?

Thanks again.

Leonard.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:10 PM   #13172
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Originally Posted by Jon Kerr
All I can say is WOW! This was the best car I've ever had at SoCal and I only had 8 runs total last night! The 19 turn class was like the typical SoCal Nationals 17 guys in 19 turn. Tosolini TQ'd and the top 12 were within 10 seconds of his time. I was 10th after some inconsistency due to nerves Unfortunately they cut off the A at 9 dues to the tight track I did run away with the B running the car in cruise control.

Donny- I did try the roll center adjustment you suggested and it did work, but too much. Made the car flow through the corners but made it too free. It was even more nervous like that. I went back to where I was when I talked to you and played with the wheelbase position a little. I also took that one last brace between the steering posts out of the top deck. That helped too. It was a little frustrating because the car was SO good but I was about .2-.3 off Toso's lap times and didn't know where to get it from the car. It had to have been all driver
Way to go Jon. We had 26 guys in 19 turn last night. I'm happy for now. Gotta see what set up changes are needed once the bite comes up. I still think for 19 turn and stock we have a pretty good set up but it needed some changes for mod. Time to make sure Schumacher USA has plenty in stock because these babies are gonna sell like hot cakes. Keep up the good work and I guess I'll see you at the Reedy.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:19 PM   #13173
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog3375
Thanks for your advice Adrian and Paul. Much appreciated. And just to clarify, with regard to the roll centre changes, what is meant to happen if you raise or lower the roll centres (front and rear)?

Thanks again.

Leonard.
I'm no Jon Kerr so this may be corrected later or added to but for me raising the roll center makes the car react quicker (switching directions, through tght "S" sections) and not as much lean..........while lowering it made the car sort of have a hair bit of lean (IMO) and also seemed to give me a little traction. again.....wait for a Jon Kerr explaination. He is the the man with helping someone understand set up
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:42 PM   #13174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog3375
Thanks for your advice Adrian and Paul. Much appreciated. And just to clarify, with regard to the roll centre changes, what is meant to happen if you raise or lower the roll centres (front and rear)?

Thanks again.

Leonard.
It's like STLNLST said lowering the roll center allows that end to roll more which will usually give more grip to that end. Raising it will allow less roll and make it more reactive (less roll,stiffer). Jon's turn to correct us both.

Rod
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Old 01-29-2006, 01:29 PM   #13175
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Just another thought/question, when we are talking about the change in roll centres, and reference to the setup sheets, does that mean we just add spacers accordingingly (ie. if roll centre is 3mm, we put the 3mm alloy spacer in. Or do you have to include the piece of carbon firbe plate as well?)I only ask as this car is different to my old car (JRXS).

Thanks again for all of your help and advice.

Leonard.
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Old 01-29-2006, 01:43 PM   #13176
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OH MY GOSH..........

This car is awesome. It looked really good sitting on my work bench for the couple of weeks while our carpet track took time off but it was worth the wait. Missed TQ on a bobble on the last lap. I took out all the RDX hot shots except the one that TQ'ed The car is easier to drive and if you need to push it some it's still controllable Corner speed (non pun intended) up the yin yang. The car rotated well and had nice snap out of the corners. Mo did most of the major testing but I just wanted to get use to the way the car felt. Only changed one thing from what we started with and the car was AWESOME!!!! The Schuie's were out in force today as all of the norcal regulars came out. Racer X will have the new set up sheet on www.gearchart.com tomorrow or Monday as the current one doesn't show all of the shock loactions. It sure was nice to be back in the lime light again. Too bad I screwed up the start of the main so my finishing position didn't show how killer the car was. I did have quite a few straightaway vic's today. The DC motor and battery combo was excellent.

BN RACING qualified 1 & 2 today .......................we all know Schuie guys don't look good in mullets
The car looked good! So good that even STLNLST could drive it into the A. (Complimentary product support plug) Good JOB!

I wish I could have done better but I made all the wrong set up decisions....its all good though. Lady Luck smiled upon me and I did NOT have to wear the MULLET! Thank GOD! I'll get ya next week booiiiiiiiii!
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:37 PM   #13177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog3375
Just another thought/question, when we are talking about the change in roll centres, and reference to the setup sheets, does that mean we just add spacers accordingingly (ie. if roll centre is 3mm, we put the 3mm alloy spacer in. Or do you have to include the piece of carbon firbe plate as well?)I only ask as this car is different to my old car (JRXS).

Thanks again for all of your help and advice.

Leonard.
Thanks guys.

Clint and Rod are right. The lower the roll center, usually the more bite you'll get on that end, to a point. For instance, yesterday, I raised the roll centers on the car front and rear to see if the car would flow faster through the corner. It did but at the expense of not having enough bite to place the car where I wanted it. It made adjusting my line really difficult if I needed to react quickly. And when we're talking about a 3mm roll center, it's usually the 2mm riser plate, plus a 1mm shim under the pivot block.

Oh and Shookie, thanks. That's exactly what I'm hoping for.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:04 PM   #13178
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Normally, I don't like running a new car for the first few times as I shake the bugs out (usually installed by me) and learn how different changes effect the car, but WOW! Schuie hit this one out of the park! It was the easiest kit I have built...no fitting, no grinding, no problems...and it has got to be the nicest looking car at the track. But this car is not all show and no go. PWs setup was GREAT! Changes to the setup did exactly what was expected (and were usually changed back to PWs setup). The car didn't miss a beat all day...the driver, however, coming back from a long vacation from carpet (and never running foams before) had accumulated some rust. The car was running much better than the driver (the driver was afraid to push dispite the cars insistance to go faster). Give me anouther week or two, some new batteries and a motor (still running batts and motors from the Reedy) and maybe I'll be able to at least finish on the same lap as STLNLST.

Great driving STL...and as predicted, no mullet to be found around anything Schumacher. See ya next week...
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:07 PM   #13179
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Yea Jon, maybe having the shocks laided down some may have helped. Don't know if you did that or tried a softer rate. Did you try the equal springs all the way round?
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:17 PM   #13180
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No, those adjustments are next. I also want to try a one-way there once. This car is so much more stable than the old car, the one-way may react better with it. I'm really trying to do the setup testing one change at a time. It'll take longer to get them all tried, but we'll know exactly what each change will do the fewer variables we have. Moving the front arms all the way back (I had them 1mm from full back) really made a huge difference. It's much more aggressive than it was when I started eventhough it felt very aggressive then too and it carried the extra steering through the whole corner.
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Old 01-29-2006, 07:58 PM   #13181
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hi guys - i need some help with an issue.

During building I pulled the driveshafts apart and retightened and threadlocked teh grub screws as per recommendations on this thread. One of mine still dropped it's pin on the second run.

When I pulled it out and replaced the pin I again tightened it up (so tight I stripped the hex in the grub screw ) even with it that tight the pin can still slide in and out. The conclusion is that the grub screw thread is not cut right through the cylinder and no matter how tight I make it it is just tightening up in the thread not on the pin.

I need to buy a new cylinder as I can't get the grub screw out. On the old driveshafts it was possible to buy the cylinder (U2694) but they won't fit the new U3020 driveshafts. Anyone know a part number for the new cylinder or do I have to buy a full set of drive shafts.
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:14 PM   #13182
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I think the only way you can solve that problem is file a flat spot on the pin . What do you guys suggest?
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:22 PM   #13183
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Try threading the set screw into the cylinder and look for it through the pin hole, if you dont see it, threads arent cut deep enough or there is a burr. Use a tap to clean out the threads if this is the case. If you still cant get it to work, use a large piece of heatshrink over the cvd bell to hold the pin in until you can get a replacement.
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:25 PM   #13184
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Hey Jon, I notice that you change roll center by using the riser plates and shimming up the entire bulkhead. I am coming from the AE camp where the main roll center adjustments were with the inboard camber links. I actually ran my car with the rear link up because I wanted it to rotate more. It did rotate but the car ran flatter because of less chassis roll. Wouldn't it be better to change roll center this way in stead of shimming the entire bulhead?
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Old 01-29-2006, 10:15 PM   #13185
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Stlnst- I am glad your new car works now we can go to the range and I dont have to worry about you shooting anyone when you start thinking about cornerspeed!!!!! BN Racing in the HOUSE!!!!!
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