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Old 01-03-2002, 10:34 PM   #961
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Ty-We have drivers running on foam tires in stock and mod at tracks all over the US. Alex's setup from Cleveland seems to be pretty darn good. You will find it around page 13-15 on this thread. As far as how competitive the car is...most drivers are reporting that they are turning faster laps with the Mission than the TC3's and XXX-S's they owned before. The Mission also seems able to out accelerate either the competition in stock or mod and any given track on rubber or foam.
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Old 01-04-2002, 02:51 AM   #962
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Anyone here run foam tires on asphalt tracks?

Ive got a Summer Nats event here in Australia being run on foams ona fairly open medium sized med-high grip asphalt track.

Just wondering what kind of setups might be good on the Mission for these conditions
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Old 01-04-2002, 04:03 AM   #963
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AdrianM & Ty, I run a lot of carpet on foams and I have noticed that if you lower the internal drive ratio of the car you can get a lot more rip off the corner. Depending on the size of the track and how tight the corners are a lower internal drive ratio will allow the car to spin up faster. I run on a track that is about 80 x 40 Ozite(SP) carpet with a lot of tight corners. By using the old 15 tooth pulley off of the Axis or SST and a HPI 58 tooth belt in the rear I got my gear ratio to 2.4. This gave the car noticable punch off of the corner almost to the point where the car feels like a TC3. Have you guys seen anyone else trying this???
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Old 01-04-2002, 04:47 AM   #964
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TheTeacher - I just read your message quickly and thought you were running an overall ratio of 2.4!! jeez! That would be somewhat insane and not much accleration at all! But biy it would wind out!
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Old 01-04-2002, 07:47 AM   #965
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Oasis, no I'm talking about the ratio between the lay shaft pulley and the diff pulley. The ratio of the front diff pulley to the rear diff pulley is 1 : 1 so they don't come into play.
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Old 01-04-2002, 08:29 AM   #966
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Sandor: Currenly I am running yellow springs all around on the outter lower holes (pretty stiff, only the silver springs are heaver) and found the car runs better with the swaybar installed, so the sway bar seems to actually be doing something.

Bodys: If you need more steering, the Vectra (as cornerspeed suggested) will give you more. For alot more, use the Andys Honda, but I can't imagine needing THAT much more steering.

Type S: Have you tried direct from Schumacher yet? The diffs should be the same as the A2 diffs. Don't know if they have any of the older parts like the chassis though. I would start with a call to Adrain before anything else...or really think about saving the money and getting the Mission, you won't be sorry...

Mark G: Currently the Mission holds the stock track record at Stockton, CA (where the carpet Nats will be in March) too. Unfortunatly, I had a similar experience in the main as you did, still got second.
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Old 01-04-2002, 08:28 PM   #967
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Teacher-Interesting combo you are running! The Mission seems to be out accelerating TC3's and XXX-S' with either the 17 or 20 tooth pulleys. I think the pulley racers choose will come down to track size. 17 for smaller or very tight tracks and the 20 for larger more flowing tracks. At my local asphalt track (120ft straight) the 20 is better. The car seems to top out too soon and stop accelerating down the straight when running the 17. This is a complaint from a lot of racers about the TC3. It dosen't seem to have as much top speed as the belt cars with lower ratios. However, a lot of racers on smaller carpet tracks prefer the 17. In the end everyone just has to try both and see what they like best.
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Old 01-04-2002, 09:17 PM   #968
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I don't know guys.......

Final drive is final drive. I really don't see how any of this tranny ratio stuff can affect performance......I've heard all the talk about two cars with the same final drive, but one using a larger spur gear, and the larger spur'ed car will have more "punch".....I just don't go for it.

You all seem to be saying, "the car tops out with the 17, or seems slow with the 20" etc. If you change the pinion/spur to get the same final ratio with each pulley, there should be no change at all. if you just change the pulley, then hell yes the car will top out too soon! Running gearing of 88/25 with the 17 is like a 7.40 ratio, and just switching to the 20 pulley is a 6.50! Big change there....like gearing up 4 teeth!

Now-

I can see where a car with a lower final drive could be better in stock, as that would yield less of a variance in final drive ratios from tooth to tooth on the pinion. For example, going up or down one tooth in the TC3 is a much larger change, given the 2.5:1 tranny ratio. The Losi at 1.83:1 is not as much change with a one tooth change.

And a higher final drive would be better in mod, so that you don't have to run a 15 tooth pinion on a small track with an 8 turn.

Are we sure that is not the idea behing the optional ratios?
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Old 01-04-2002, 09:31 PM   #969
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I think track size is the determining factor when it comes to choosing pulley size. My buddy just got a Mission and we've been trying to get it dialed in. On our semi large track, with the 17t in, he couldn't keep up with me (Axis 2) on the straight. As soon as we switched to the 20t, we were nose to tail. So to me, 17t = small, tight, and technical, 20t = large, open, and flowing.
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Old 01-05-2002, 02:04 AM   #970
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And the only change from run to run was the pulley?
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Old 01-05-2002, 04:04 AM   #971
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I race on a fairly large track here in Melbourne and the 17T pulley just caused excess accleration and no top end. the 20 tooth is great. I think you have to generally gear the Mission higher though than the Axis 2.

I had a good run today. Still havent got the oneway and its getting mighty hot here. I find im lacking high speed steering abit but have loads of low speed steering which is good for our track.

Any tips on maintaining high speed steering in terms of arm angles and lengths etc? Im fine when its cool but when it gets warm I lose steering on high speed turns. low speed steerin is always good.
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Old 01-05-2002, 07:36 AM   #972
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Hey Speedy, I know all the engineering books and engineers themselves say that final drive is final drive, but thatís just not the case with R/C drivetrains. I don't know the true reason why it is different, but I know there is because when timing the car from point A to point B on sections (start of straight to end) of the track with the same overall ratio (different pulleys) the times do support what everyone is saying. (I do hope others are keeping the same overall ratio when changing the pulley though).

I think when changing pulleys and gears (pinion/spur) you are also adding or taking away rotating weight and this may be 1 reason for a difference, also tooth engagement and belt rapp changes with smaller/larger pulleys. There are just too many variables when changing the pulley/gears for something not to change performance while keeping the same overall ratio with the RPM's that are motors produce.
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Old 01-05-2002, 01:09 PM   #973
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Speedy.....Have you ever been to a real drag strip? If you have say a car that turned a 14 sec 1/4 mile at 80mph then another car turned a 14 sec 1/4 mile at 90mph. Well they both went 1/4 mile in 14 sec. but one was going faster then the other. So if you went to the 1/2 mile mark the car with the higer top speed would be ahead. This is kind of like how it works in RC cars. Yeah Final drive is final drive but for some reason it does not work out the same in RC cars. I know I took the Mission with the 17t pulley and the same final drive then changed to the 20t with the same final as I had with the 17t and the car was noticably faster with the 20t at the top end. With the 17t and the same over all it seemed like the car would spool up about 20 feet past the corrner and never run down the straight fast. With the 20 it would not spool up as fast but was faster running down the straight. This was all done on a track with a 100ft straight. Like Paul said I bet it has to do with the rotational mass that you dont have on the smaller pulley thats why its faster out of the hole. Im not sure but this is what I have seen myself on the track.
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Old 01-05-2002, 03:10 PM   #974
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Kevin.... so do you prefer the 17 or 20 tooth for tackside? Hope to see you Sun.
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Old 01-05-2002, 03:15 PM   #975
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Anyone seeing anything bad about the Schumacher Mission? I am still thinking about buying one, but I have to see how I like my Losi after all the graphite and aluminum I installed over the holidays. I still have not had time to test. Also, those running stock on carpet with foams or rubber, how is it compared to a TC3? And those 40lb springs that Schumacher makes, what color are they or should I just run Associated white springs (do they fit?)?


What does everyone here think of the grey belts for stock racing on carpet with foams? I am wondering if it makes the car more efficient, accelerate better or what is the advantage? Also how does it hold up?


One more issue; how heavy is the car? I will install the Lunsford kit on it if I decide to purchase the Mission. How does it compare to a TC3 or fully graphited XXX-S? Is it worth it or neccesary to get titanium screws to lighten it up?

Thanks so much.
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