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Old 11-06-2003, 01:58 PM   #4846
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McMoney's car didn't have the new one piece diff housings and the new 4 point layshaft mounts. Both of these changes make the car stiffer. The way the front and rear shock towers bolt to the latest version of the car also give it a stiffer more box like structure.

Keep in mind that stiffer is not always better. The stiffest car available now is the Graphite XXX-S. However the really fast team guys all mill holes and slots all over it to get it to flex more.

On some tracks Factory AE drivers run a graphite chassis with almost all the ribs milled out so the car flexes more and generates more grip

Factory Xray drivers all run the Raycer molded chassis (a stiff version you can't buy right now) that flexes more the and Evo 2 Carbon chassis because the car is faster everywhere like that. The also have 4 diffrent top decks. A stock stiff deck and 3 pregressively more flexy decks. Most of the factory drivers run the 2 softer decks.
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:12 PM   #4847
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How does a car that flexes more produce more grip? I think this is just a way to compensate for an inaccurate setup, where their suspension isn't doing what it is supposed to.

This would make the car more forgiving, and perhaps easier to drive, but far less accurate. If you had a 100% perfectly tuned suspension, you would want 0 flex out of your chassis.
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:30 PM   #4848
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Yeah, but whose going to produce a 100% perfect setup.........ever?!?
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:28 PM   #4849
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Quote:
How does a car that flexes more produce more grip? I think this is just a way to compensate for an inaccurate setup, where their suspension isn't doing what it is supposed to.
Its all about keeping the tires on the ground. The suspension on a R/C car is no where near as sophisticated as whats on your grandmothers station wagon. We dont have speed sensitive valving, variable rate compression and rebount damping,etc...

Your exactly right about using flex to compensate. A tuned amount of flex is designed into every R/C car on earth to make it handle better.

Quote:
This would make the car more forgiving,...
Yes.

Quote:
...and perhaps easier to drive...
Yes.

Quote:
...but far less accurate.
No. We have an unbelievable level of accurate control for not having the seat of the pants feel of a real car. Given the forces we suject are cars to, real car engineers wish they could get 10% of the control performance we get.

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If you had a 100% perfectly tuned suspension, you would want 0 flex out of your chassis.
Absolutly correct! However, the laws of thermo dynamics dictate that no system can operate at 100% efficiency. Also 0% flex is impossible even on a full tube frame NASCAR chassis. Wether it full scale cars or R/C cars its all about compromise and alternate solutions.

This discussion i nothing new. I have posed responses on this matter a dozen times in the last 10 years that sedans have existed. It goes further back than that. Stiff pan cars didn't work right either. 50% of the suspension on a pan car is controlled chassis flex and they are WAY faster than sedans.

History Lesson

Yokomo releases a budget plastic molded sedan the Mr-4 and finds out its a better car than the big $$ carbon YR-4 Pro.

The car sells well and racers ask Yokomo for a higher spec graphite molded kit. It comes out and it handles like crap....Until Masami Hirosaka and Barry Baker figure out that if they mill out a big chunk of the top plate the car flexes more and handles better. The first gen MR-4 Pro was terrible until the kits started coming with the milled top decks. Yokomo won everything for a year and a half with that car.

Over the years there have been super stiff parts made for just about every car. They all accomplish one goal thay take a good car and make it awful.

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Last edited by AdrianM; 11-06-2003 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:43 PM   #4850
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That said... The Mi2 is stiffer than the a Mission with a carpet top deck. But the new suspension function so much better than the Missions that it actually easier to drive faster.
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:06 PM   #4851
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Just buy the damn car, you know you want to.
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:14 PM   #4852
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Adrian!!!

looks super!!!! when do i get mine to start the durability testing!!!

"i can break that part in the first turn"!!!


i can hardly wait ..


the cop
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:24 PM   #4853
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I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:28 PM   #4854
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Adrian... Looks awesome....

I am alll giddy waiting.
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:32 PM   #4855
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[giddy] hehe.. hehe...hehe [/giddy]
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:48 PM   #4856
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Sweet.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:56 PM   #4857
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giddy?..

damn that, im gettin hornay!
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Old 11-06-2003, 11:04 PM   #4858
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdrianM

History Lesson

Over the years there have been super stiff parts made for just about every car. They all accomplish one goal thay take a good car and make it awful.
THANK YOU.....NO truer words have ever been spoken!!!!

And all this tells us is one thing......racers know what they WANT.....but not necessarily what they NEED!
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Old 11-06-2003, 11:36 PM   #4859
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If your talking rubber tire carpet or rubber tire asphalt then yes stiffer is not better but here in the states almost all of the big races (indoor) are foam tire on carpet... there stiffer is better. I twisted McMahons car at Cleveland and I thought it had lot of flex... I am glad to hear the final version is stiffer. I am not bashing the car either... as I am on the list for one.
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Old 11-07-2003, 05:39 AM   #4860
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I'm sure Schumacher will have the setup down by the Indoor Champs and I look forward to seeing how you guys do...

PW, do you think the changes to the suspention (c-hubs, rear uprights, pivot blocks and arms) carry over to the R12???
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