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Old 03-02-2003, 06:39 PM   #3931
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MattW...thanks...personally I like the raised roll center...my car has been winning on an outdoor asphalt track....fast and stable, but I thought I would try the standard roll center to see what effect it would have on lap times...
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Old 03-02-2003, 07:23 PM   #3932
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markg....Yes, you can just flip the alloy mounts for the roll-mod (thats how we run them). As for the Fusion bulkheads alloy/std, I don't like them in any conditions. Some of the guys in england like them on the Mission though. I believe the alloy Fusion mount also has the hinge-pin hole placed in the middle of the stock holes. I wish we had that on the stock Mission mounts (thats why we have been spacing mounts up 1 or 2mm)
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Old 03-02-2003, 09:59 PM   #3933
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Jeff,
I would also play with the droop to make the car rotate faster or slower. I am currently using 3 on the rear and 2 on the frt with the hudy gauges. My car was just behind the fast guy today. It always gets better. I want to try less droop maybe 4 on the rear and 3 in the frt, is always a possibilty. Let us know.
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Old 03-02-2003, 10:00 PM   #3934
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So what effect would raising the bulkhead up 1 mm or so have?
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Old 03-02-2003, 10:08 PM   #3935
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On my losi Gauge I just checked my mission from last night and the droop was 2 front and 2 rear....May needed to go to 3 in the rear to get teh car to rotate better....thought?

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Old 03-02-2003, 10:19 PM   #3936
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wouldnt increasing the droop cause you to have more traction in the rear, and therefore more push and less rotation? I would think you would want to either increase front droop slightly, or decrease rear to improve rotation...
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Old 03-02-2003, 10:32 PM   #3937
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This discussion on droop always gets me turned around...lol My way of viewing droop is as follows: my car has a droop setting of 2 on my losi guage at the rear of the car. If I we the the next step higher in the gauge it would be at the number 3. To me this is having less droop in the rear...my hopes is this would reduce grip/traction and allow the car to rotate better.

I agree with you on if I increase the amount of droop the arms have in the rear then I would infact plant the rear more the very trait I am trying to tune out of the car...now increasing to me means going from 2 in the rear to 1 on the gauge...hope I am looking at it correct....lol

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Old 03-02-2003, 11:12 PM   #3938
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Jeff, If you want more steering whle on the throttle, or on-power steering, you need to decrease the front droop which means to decrease the amount of down travel of the arm. This simply stops the car from raising the front under power keeping the front lower and therefore keeping more weight on the front resulting in more front traction and steering. (If you are using your Losi or Hudy droop guages that means to go to a HIGHER number on the height guage...which raises the arm in relation to the chassis....which decreases the amount of down travel of the arm....get it?)

You definately have too much front droop. I measure droop by the actual amount of uptravel of the suspensiopn while holding the tires to the setup board. I run about 1.5mm in front and 2.0mm in the rear.

To clarify, decreasing your rear droop will only limit the amount of weight the car transfers to the front when off power or braking. So if the car is getting loose or oversteering when you let off the throttle, then decrease the rear droop.

OK, one last time- front droop only affects ON-power handling and rear droop only affects OFF-power handling. That's the most important thing you need to understand about droop.

Jeff, one other thing you can do to get more steering is to hook up the rear swaybar. The turn-in won't be affected (because the swaybar is not in use when the chassis isn't rolling) but you will have more mid and exit steering. Keep in mind if you start getting TOO much steering and overall traction (even if the car isn't spinning out) you will start "parking" in the turns.

Last edited by BigDogRacing; 03-02-2003 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 03-02-2003, 11:23 PM   #3939
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Quote:
Originally posted by markg
wouldnt increasing the droop cause you to have more traction in the rear, and therefore more push and less rotation? I would think you would want to either increase front droop slightly, or decrease rear to improve rotation...
Mark, if you mean increasing the NUMBER (like from 2 to 3) of the droop reading yes, it will give you more rear traction while OFF power. If you mean increasing the actual droop (the amount of travel) then no, it will take even more weight off the rear while off power or braking.

You coming to the Beat the Heat race with Toasty in August? There are a TON of people telling me they are coming. I don't suppose all the nice gifts the sponsors (like Schumacher USA -THAAAANKS PW!!!) give for the race is a factor... do you?!?!? LOL
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Old 03-03-2003, 04:39 PM   #3940
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the biggest confusion about droop is caused by the numerous ways of measuring it!...the hudy guages etc use a larger number to indicate less droop!...its rediculous!

My method is to place the chassis with tires on Hudy 20mm raiser blocks, then already knowing my ride height, I use a RPM adjustable ride height guage, knowing that say my rear ride height is 5mm, and i want 3mm of droop, I subract, my ride height (say 5mm), and my droop( say 3mm) added = 8
from 20( the raiser blocks), giving me 12mm,

this is what i set my RPM guage to, and adjust the droop screws until the tire touches the guage. This method is exact, works perfectly, and you get the proper amount of droop you require..FROM THE TIRE!!!..

what is the point of measuring droop at the arm or hub?..they dont make contact with the track!...different inserts, tires etc will all effect ride height, and therefore your droop..so always measure ride height, then droop from the tire!to have an exact measurement.

BigDog is spot on...rear droop affects off power (entry), front droop affects on Power (exit).

Picture a 2wd offroad car...how they pitch on and off power...droop is limiting this pitch, and reducing weight transfer to the opposite end of the car.

Last edited by King-G; 03-03-2003 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 03-03-2003, 07:05 PM   #3941
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Dang BigDog...I get all tingly when you start talking that stuff...I'll never fall for that simple country boy from Tenn routine again...

By the way, Toastie gave me what you and Sean sent from the Snowbirds...right back at you there, big guy...

My opportunities to race will depend on work mainly but August is a definite maybe. The only other thing I know of in August is the Hotter N Hell 100 bike ride I do every August...will do the 100 mile road ride Saturday, and a mountain bike time trial on Sunday, all in 100+ degree temps....now thats beating the heat...
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Old 03-04-2003, 02:28 PM   #3942
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Default Whats Wrong with my Axis 2 ?????

Hey guys i run a Schumacher Axis 2 .Right now i am setting up my suspension and every thing is perfect all the shock shafts are within..+/- .0001 of an inche.. The car has threded shocks and i made sure each shock is threaded exactly and all is measured with my digital vernier caliper.

There is no electronics in the car right now besides the servo..will the servo affect anything?or should i have all the electronics in durning the time i set the suspension?
Now the problem is the left rear tire lifts up before the right rear..
And the front suspension the left lifts before the right too..

I WANT THEM TO LIFT OFF THE GROUND AT THE SAME TIME!!!!

Also whats the exact lenght of the tie rods acting as the top deck of the chassis?and whats a good set-up for carpet? Please Respond!!!!


Thanks Edward Pickering
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Old 03-04-2003, 02:41 PM   #3943
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Default hey i also own an Axis2

I was told by a few different people that when setting up suspension that you should have the car exactly how it would be except minus body...and I know for sure that if you are checking which side lifts up that you deffinnetly need to also have the Batteries in as well...this way you will get a more accurate reading on how the car will react out on the track.....so do all your setup with all electronics in and batteries in as well
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Old 03-04-2003, 02:57 PM   #3944
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Racer XXX,

Your threaded collars will probably not be exactly the same to get the car untweaked. Do you have a tweak station? If so thread the left collar down, and take some out from teh right till the bubble is level. If not, do the same thing, but just use the exacto as you would to lift the chassis. Do this until both sides lift at the same time. Oh and by the way, like racerb said, always have all electronics (including batteries and motor) in teh car when you do this. Otherwise you're not tweaking the car as it should be for racing. Hope this helps
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Old 03-04-2003, 03:57 PM   #3945
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The car should be fully loaded, included dummy transponder, all electronics batteries etc.

Do it and add weight where required to bring it up to legal weight...experiment by placing the weight in the areas which need it most, I.E the areas which will better the weight distribution...For instance on my mission, I have 45 grams of weight between the servo and the speed controller on the outside edge..with this placement I get perfect tweak, 50/50 weight distribution on my hudy balancing points both side to side and front to rear.

very important to getting even tweak..

once you have this level base to work from, it is very easy to know when the car is tweaked or a component is bent, because i know the car is always perfectly centred on the MIP tweak station., if the bubble is out of dead centre, I know its a bent pin etc.

makes for a better more consistent car to drive also.

one other thing to check is the length of your springs in pairs l/r.

I number all of my springs, and remove a slight amount of paint from the top and bottow to get them absolutely equal...since doing this I have been always able to set my threaded collars even on each corner.
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