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Old 01-27-2003, 04:21 PM   #3736
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hey king g your on the team orion website aswell
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Old 01-27-2003, 05:50 PM   #3737
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thanks, just stumbled across that one..was suprised to say the least
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Old 01-27-2003, 10:13 PM   #3738
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Emotions with a new car can range from joy to anger in a heartbeat. Had a soso start to the mission last weekend. The car just did not have some things that I needed it to have. Then I started to go through some bearings...blew the left rear bearings out and then the right front. Had to park the car for the night and got my back up losi out. Ended up doing well with it ...and thought the mission could be shortlived...got it home tonight and wanted to free it up a little. Ended up taking off the thin outside spacer next to the pin in the outdrive. To give the outdrive some side to side play...and the say that the screws in the bottom of the hubs were a little tight...with a few turns on each corner and the thin washer taken out the car now seems very free...more free than my losi...may have to give it a few more chances... any info on how to make the car even more free???

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Old 01-28-2003, 01:31 AM   #3739
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ive got a question for some of you mission guys....i ran a xxxs all summer long outdoors on foam tires. for the indoor season i got my mission and i have to say im impressed with the car. i do have one problem that i could use some help with. no matter what setup i put on my car i cant get it to feel stable enough on foam tires and carpet. ive used paul's setup from snowbirds and he has talked to me about alot of the issues i was having. although he was a great help there just seems to be something i'm missing. im running the standard chassis with the solid carpet topdeck. front shocks out on tower in on arm with 60wt losi oil and 2 hole piston. im running top hole on bulkhead for camber and outside on hub. associated purple springs plaid trc 26mm tires. rear shocks 2nd hole in on tower in on arm with 40 wt losi oil and 2 hole piston copper springs. camber same as front. im also running 2 deg toe out inboard on front but zero overall. im running 11 deg of castor (both washers at the back). as far as drive train my car is extremely free. i have the grey belts in, the RW pullies, the aluminum diff housings and layshaft mounts and i took the belt tensioner completely out. my biggest problem is when i go into corners the rear of the car just wants to whip right around. the only way i can control the car is if i jab the throttle going through the turn and then i obviously will start to push a little.... any input would greatly be appreciated.

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Old 01-28-2003, 05:43 AM   #3740
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Default 180 degree turns.!

I have experience the same problem, that you are experiencing. First, MAKE SURE nothing is BENT. Such as lower suspension balls, upper camber link, or inner hinge pins. If those are ok, check your droop, I have found that using the Hudy droop gauge measuring 1 to 1.5 for the front, and 3 in the rear. Then you can checkride height, I run 5mm in the frt, and 5.5mm in the rear. Lastly, you can check chassis tweak if you or a friend has a tweak board. Frt and rear axle should be level reguardless as to where you collars are on the shocks.
My setup for gray ozite is:
#3 tower
outer hole on the hub and the arm, lowered frt hub carrier 2mm, roll center mod from Schumacher, thick roll bar, upper camber , 3 deg of caster(use motor shims), 1.5 neg camber, 0 toe losi 60 pistons w 50 wt ae oil, and Schumacher red frt springs.
outer hole on the arm and the hubs, upper camber position, 0 inboard toe, over all toe 2 degrees,1.5 neg camber,
60 pistons 50 wt, and Schumacher grey springs. My tire size is 60mm, spur is 95 rw, and 20 th pulley.
Try this for a practice run and let me know.
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Old 01-28-2003, 07:36 AM   #3741
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its all about the droop try running outer hole back and inner hole front blue srpings front and gray back 30watt 1 hole all round
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Old 01-28-2003, 10:44 AM   #3742
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Syntex- we're talking about carpet on foam tires.

Raul- I would think with that much front droop you are experiencing quite an on-power push. I've been running between .5 and 1mm of droop both front and rear on carpet. I set it around 1mm front and rear then adjust according to the track. I've also been setting the droop by holding the tires down ont he setup board and lightly pulling up on the shock towers until the droop screws hit the chassis. Then my racing partner checks the ride height of the chassis with a regular ride height guage. This give me more of a real world measurement because of tire sizes constantly changing and resetting ride height all the time. Then I just hold the car up and make sure the arms look level.

I've also been running between 6 and 8.5 on castor because anything more takes away turn-in and anything less makes the car extremely twitchy and will make it dig in.

Raul you might be a little soft on springs also. The copper/red or purple/copper seem to work best for me. The soft springs and too much droop might be why you're having to run the ride height so high. Just a few things to try....

Bob- you have too much castor IMO. Try Rauls's setup with a little stiffer springs.

One last thing- We ALWAYS start with the shocks all the way in on carpet. If needed, we go out a hole MAYBE two, but never more. The car just doesn't carry enough speed with the shocks anymore than 2 holes.
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Old 01-28-2003, 11:10 AM   #3743
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BigDogRacing, I tend to disagree with your last statement. I've found that with the shocks all the way in the car scrubs the most speed in the corners. The car will be smoother and less twitchy but I think overall it will scrub more speed than standing the shock up. Is there something else you do to get the speed through the corners when you run the shock all the way in on the tower???
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Old 01-28-2003, 12:43 PM   #3744
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This is the carpet setup on foams that i will try this saturday if anyone is interested.
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File Type: jpg hinckley 1st feb.jpg (99.4 KB, 66 views)
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Old 01-28-2003, 01:24 PM   #3745
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Didn't you say purples were far too grippy a couple of weeks ago when watching my car and that blues were better?

Do you really need full width additive on the front?
If you do there is something wrong somewhere.
With purples at both ends you should really be looking at half width additive max on the front and even that is quite extreme.
I presume you must have "questioned" triffits additive technique for his purple fronts at some point.
Ride height looks a tad high too.

What's happening about the motor rules at Hinckley?
May come racing the week after next but only have an 11 turn.

Last edited by dw; 01-28-2003 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 01-28-2003, 03:13 PM   #3746
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Bob Barry...

I'm with BigDog...the combination of spring and shock position is too light for running on carpet with foams...I think you might get away with that oil and spring if nothing is bent as has been suggested, and if you lay the shocks down to the inner-most, or perhaps number 2 hole on the upper mount. I hesitate to mention droop, just because different ways to measure. I measure with an associated gauge, and would be about 2mm in back, and 2-3 in front.

Give it a shot, try going stiffer and see if it calms that back end down some...say 70 wt oil and lay the shocks down...I dont know if I understood your rear toe setting...if running the forward lower hing pin mounts in the zero position, then try about 2 deg of rear toe in....

Jeff Werner...dont give up on it yet...trying to get a car dialed in can be frustrating...if you dont have the RW front and rear diff pullies, they will help free the drive train a lot, and they are pretty inexpensive upgrades (about $12 each I think??) Also, if feeling bound, check the center layshaft to make sure its not cocked slightly, and the spur spins freely. But from what I've seen most of the bearing friction is in the wheel bearings...good luck...

King-G...good show...I just spent the last week with a guy from Melbourne visiting the states...sent him your way today, with instructions to check you guys out. Looks like I may be headed down under later this year, so hope to come check out your track...G'day
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Old 01-28-2003, 03:34 PM   #3747
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Ok guys.....Schumacher had very little experience on foam tires and the setups that we have run in the past was based on rubber tire setups. We now have more experience with foams and have found that the laydown setup is very fast in stock, but very hard to drive in mod. So we have come up with some new setups that seem to run very well, but are much easier to drive and more stable.

I will once again beg & plead with BigDog to post the setup I'm speaking of.....

FYI....Schumacher will be working on a USA based website for the summer

Last edited by PW; 01-28-2003 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 01-28-2003, 11:38 PM   #3748
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BigDog... I have a big foam tire race comming up and I generaly run rubber so I need help... if you have a good foam setup Like PW says you do could you please post it for us
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Old 01-29-2003, 05:05 AM   #3749
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Default roll centre kit

Hi Guys,
for those interested, I bought what must be one of the first roll centre kits for the Mision in Australia, and have installed it, but won't get to use it until Friday night. The kit includes a 2mm carbon spacer plate for the front toe block, and also for the rear to raise the rear roll centre too. There are also two replacement lower steering blocks (that you have to cut), 2 new hinge pins (5mm sharter) and two alloy hinge pin brackets to hold the back of the hinge pins. These can be flipped over for a quick return to standard roll setting. Kit also incluses new screws. I'll report back once I've driven it.

Last edited by BagofSkill; 01-29-2003 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 01-29-2003, 05:14 AM   #3750
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Also, a note on instalation. New spacers and o-rings are supplied for the rear of the hinge pin, but I found that these fouled the steering blocks in their movement, so I replaced the plastic spacers with Quick Clips that had the tab cut off, forming more of a C-clip. When the missing part of the C is at the top, there is enough clearance.

Last edited by BagofSkill; 01-29-2003 at 06:34 AM.
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