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Old 06-12-2002, 12:37 PM   #2296
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Talking Parma X20 TC body!!!

Rob,

Lets trade bodies as well!! I will have a shiny new Parma X20 body to test with as well. It will be interesting to see how it feels compared to the Stratus. SOme pro driers who tested it like it a lot already!!!

Ray
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Old 06-12-2002, 07:10 PM   #2297
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Default Shocks

I tore my car apart tonight. I rebuilt all 8 shocks and I must say the Associted piston/Losi shock shaft makes a very smooth shock-Thanks Kevin and Rob!!!

Interesting car to say the least!!!

On the Diffs, the rear feels like it needs a rebuild. Will Stealth lube and Black grease work fine on diff balls and Thrust washer? Manual says otherwise!!!
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Old 06-12-2002, 07:11 PM   #2298
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Ray you cant be serious about likeing the serpent shocks more than the shueys?.. .

I have recently switched over from the corally, and whilst their shocks were nice in their external adjustability, they were the hardest shocks to bleed and get equal rebound of all the shocks I have used...this is why the corally team drivers were using tamiya/or tc3 shocks at the worlds.

the schumacher shocks are so simple to get correct rebound, simply fill to just above the beginning of the internal thread, and with a 7 mm gap from the piston to the lower cap, insert the piston, cap onto the body, and slowly work the piston into the oil without trapping air and tighten..

this method gives me perfect rebound everytime..!..

also, stick to what the manual says for shock length..around 66-67mm unless you are using different shafts...

Last edited by King-G; 06-13-2002 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 06-12-2002, 07:13 PM   #2299
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ok I just read your latest post...disregard my post about the shock lengths, as you arent running standard..

just ensure that your shock lengths arent too short that they dictate your maximum droop at only like 4-5mm
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Old 06-12-2002, 08:27 PM   #2300
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Ray......the Associated lube will work fine in the diffs thats what I use. Also I run my shocks at 67mm b/c like King G stated that way you can get more droop in the car. Also if you have your droop set and you want to try the outside holes on the lower arms you dont have to adjust the length to keep the same droop. Im glad you like the Losi shaft and Associated piston combo it works way better IMHO.

Hey dont forget when you set the diff's to back the grub/lock screw out first and set the diff to the action that you like and then tighten up the grub screw.....This took me a couple times to figure out this one when I first got the car. This works way better then a lock nut or something like that in the other outdrive like on other cars.
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Old 06-12-2002, 10:51 PM   #2301
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Default s1 mission

Hey Andrew, I haven't tried the s1 top plate on my graphite car yet, I built the s1 mission and ran it box stock except for threaded shock bodies, I had to take my electronics out of my graphite car. I did notice that the car seemed more stable when I would brush a dot, meaning the car would just kinda "pop a wheelie" a little and go on from there. I think because the car is overall a little heavier than the graphite car, it doesn't disrupt itself as easily as my graphite car did. You should try the s1 chassis with the top plate out, or just the top plate. I'm gonna try to be at ripon this coming saturday, so we'll see how it goes there. Take it easy!
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Old 06-12-2002, 10:54 PM   #2302
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To all foam tire rug racers-Schuamcher is now carring TM Racing Sedan foams. 28mm rims with the same offset as Jaco rims. The 1st batch will be on black rims with all future wheels being white. We have Plaid and Purple in stock as they are the top carpet compounds.

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Old 06-13-2002, 05:46 AM   #2303
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The foams work great. I ran a set last weekend and ordered more this week. The glue is job is perfect and the foam is very tight. I recommend these tires to anyone running on the rug. They hook up nicely........

Ray, As Kevin and King G stated. I also run my shocks a little longer. I have been running them at 65-66mm and have had no problems thus far with droop or ride height. The car loves small tires so the extra shock length will help with that as well.

Sounds good on the bodies. I got a couple of the new Stratus 2.0 Protoform yesterday to try out. Looks a little better than the old one and per Protoform this body is to provide a little more straight away speed, but keep all of the other characteristics....
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Old 06-13-2002, 06:51 AM   #2304
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Talking Set-up QQQ

Tonight is reassembly night!!! I am going to put Rob's Foam/Carpet set-up on car. With the exception of the Roll-Center Mod. I am planning on keeping as much stock and un-modified as possible to learn the car!!! I have driven a TC3 for over 3-years I think-so this is going to be strange. Some Questions!!

1. How tight on front and rear diffs? (i.e. how many degrees out from locked?).

2. Upper or Lower hole for upper A-arms?

Believe it or not-thats all my questions for this morning

Last edited by rayhuang; 06-13-2002 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 06-13-2002, 06:59 AM   #2305
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Upper holes on arms. I set the diffs as the book states. Half turn out from full lock. I make any other adjustments by feel on the track. I usually end up with the rear diff a little tighter......
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Old 06-13-2002, 03:14 PM   #2306
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Rob or Adrian.....the rims that come on the TM Foam tires look kinda like TRC rims do you guys know if they are the same rims? Or do you know will the little plastic wheel disks that come with the TRC wheels fit on thoes rims?

Rob how would you compair the TM foams to JACO or TRC as far as how they feel on the track?
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Old 06-13-2002, 05:01 PM   #2307
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I have found when looking at my car setup on the integy station that using the upper roll centre positions for the upper arms results in no camber change as the car leans L/R, in fact they take a litle camber away, so this dictates you need to run a little more static camber.

With the lower mounts I run 0 static camber on the front of my car, in combination of 8.5 degrees of castor this yeilds just over 2 degrees of camber change when the wheels turn L/R...as the suspension compresses, this also actually increases front camber in the turns.

A general rule I have noticed, is that on ruber tires or low / med traction the lower mounting position works best, as you get maximum grip, and can utilise the camber change to allow you to run 0 degrees front camber so on the straights to get maximum acceleration. In the rear I have found 1 degree to be best (to date)

On foams has anybody run the lower mounts?..as from what I have seen most drivers prefer the upper mounting position.

Last edited by King-G; 06-13-2002 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 06-13-2002, 05:23 PM   #2308
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King-G- a few notes so others won't be confused-

Quote:
your droop is going to dictate where the piston is sitting in the oil...and on carpet I would imagie you are running around 2-3 mm of droop.
The only time droop affects where the piston sits in the oil is when the arm is at full extention (against the droop screws). Otherwise, ride height and shock shaft length dictate relative piston/shock body position.

Quote:
I have found when looking at my car setup on the integy station that the upper arms yeild no camber change with suspension compression, in fact they take a litle camber away, so this dictates you need to run a little more static camber.
Only when your contact/wear pattern is to the outside of the tire. If you think I'm wrong, then set the camber where the wear pattern is in the center of the tire and get used to it. Then crank another degree of negative cmaber into the front and see if the car doesn't start pushing. It will most likely push on initial turn-in.

Quote:
With the lower mounts I run 0 static camber on the front of my car, in combination of 8.5 degrees of castor this yeilds just over 2 degrees of camber change when the wheels turn L/R...as the suspension compresses, this actually increases front camber in the turns
Hence the reason the raised roll centers increase steering on higher traction asphalt.

Not bashing on you or anything, just trying to help others from getting confused...
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Old 06-13-2002, 05:47 PM   #2309
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yeah I dont know what I was blurting out there...I was thinking about Ray using different shock shafts, and for some reason it got mixed in with what I was trying to say...

I was trying to say make sure the shafts length dont differ too much from the standard lengths as to cause the piston to sit too high or low in the shock body and affect maximum droop.=)

as for wear patterns on tires v's static camber, using rubber tires this is what we have found on the schumacher in Oz..our tires wear perfectly in the centre

The Corally C4.1 has similar fron end camber change dictated by the angle/length of the front upper arms.

when you turn the wheels left or right, with 8.5 degrees castor on the Mission, the camber changes to 2 - 2.25 degrees. with static camber at 0. and as the chassis leans in teh turn this slightly increases to around 2.5 degrees negative. When I tested using 1 degree of static camber, with the upper arms mounted tothe lower mount on the bulkhead, I was getting a wear patern to the inside of the tire, and hence the initial lack of bite that you referred to.

using stiff rims, and Takeoff tires this is what is working for us on asphalt.



also with the previous batch of takeoffs there was a big issue of the tire ribbing on the inner edge, we are hoping the newer inserts have eradicated this.

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Old 06-13-2002, 06:26 PM   #2310
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King-G....what you are explaining about the increased camber change in the front when the wheels turn is the same thing I have noticed. I don't think this is a very desirable as when you get increased camber gain you loose traction. But the counter point to this is that the camber change makes the car easier to drive on a surface with less traction. One thing I did was lessen the amount of castor in the car and the camber gain decreased with the more castor I removed. Also the car will have reactive castor if you use any kick up in the front hinge pins and this will add to the camber gain. What I have noticed is that for every mm of kick up you get about 2 deg's of reactive castor. I have found that with 4deg of static castor and with the arm in the lower mount you get about 1deg of camber gain. I personally run the arm in the upper hole and I have even ground off the top of the hub about 2mm so that now the inner pivot point is higher then the the outside. This will give you zero camber change as the suspension compress and the wheels are turned L or R. I feel this works very well on med to high traction situations and the car is very consistent. With the high amount of camber change the car can be inconsistent this is because of how fast you go into the corner(i.e. weight transfer) so one lap you might get 1.5 deg of change and the next lap you go in the corner harder you get 2 deg of camber gain. All this can make the car feel inconstant one lap to the next, especially when you are racing with some one and you can go into that corner at the same speed that you normally do. This might be something that you might want to look into.
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