Schumacher Corner
06-04-2002, 03:37 PM
#2221
Tech Champion
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Ottoman....thanks for the info I will hopefully get out there on some sundays to practice but this month Im really tied up on the weekends. But next month I will be there as much as I can racing on every other saturday and there for practice on sundays. Did he say anything about having a foam stock class? Thanks again for the info and I hope to see you at the track.
<--------what the heck is this one for????????
<--------what the heck is this one for????????
06-04-2002, 03:46 PM
#2222
Heeeeyyyy what's up Fleetwood?
You guys are running carpet all summer over there? I moved to Champaign and I'm looking for practice. Besides, I can come over and punt Eli around in 12th scale too! How do I get to the track? I've never been over there so I don't even know where it is. You can send directions to [email protected]. Thanks!
How's Mo and the rest of the Dayton gang doing?
You guys are running carpet all summer over there? I moved to Champaign and I'm looking for practice. Besides, I can come over and punt Eli around in 12th scale too! How do I get to the track? I've never been over there so I don't even know where it is. You can send directions to [email protected]. Thanks!
How's Mo and the rest of the Dayton gang doing?
06-04-2002, 04:38 PM
#2224
Things are going great with my Mission right now. I'm only having two issues.
1. I seem to be really hard on my tires. I don't know if its my setup or what. Even when I'm running the same tires as others at the track, mine seem to get blistered after about 3-4 runs, while the same tires on someone elses car don't. Never had this problem with my Corally, so this is something thats got me baffled.
2. I keep losing the the pulley guard on my 20 tooth pulley. I've glued it, and re-glued it, and now re-re-glued it. This is the third time I had to glue it, so I don't know why I'm losing it.
Other than those things, all is well. The excelleration is wonderful and all set ups seem to work well. Can't ask for much more than that.
1. I seem to be really hard on my tires. I don't know if its my setup or what. Even when I'm running the same tires as others at the track, mine seem to get blistered after about 3-4 runs, while the same tires on someone elses car don't. Never had this problem with my Corally, so this is something thats got me baffled.
2. I keep losing the the pulley guard on my 20 tooth pulley. I've glued it, and re-glued it, and now re-re-glued it. This is the third time I had to glue it, so I don't know why I'm losing it.
Other than those things, all is well. The excelleration is wonderful and all set ups seem to work well. Can't ask for much more than that.
06-04-2002, 04:53 PM
#2225
Darkseid, is your car working the front tires causing them to blister?..
is your car setup that it requires ful lock steering to get around the track?...if so you should think about getting more steering into your car without the need to use full lock, I find around 70-80% lock set with my epa is the best, as it gives the car enough physical lock to get through the tighter sections at low speed with less weight transfer, but at higher loads, the weight transfers to the fronts, and I get adequate steering...
I have my car pretty balanced so that the front tires look just marginally more scrubbed than the rears, try using 8.5 degree castor, with 0 to .5 degree camber at the front.
Check that pully ring is inserted on the correct way...it should snap in to place
I started using the alloy pulleys, and they lock in, without the need for gluing
is your car setup that it requires ful lock steering to get around the track?...if so you should think about getting more steering into your car without the need to use full lock, I find around 70-80% lock set with my epa is the best, as it gives the car enough physical lock to get through the tighter sections at low speed with less weight transfer, but at higher loads, the weight transfers to the fronts, and I get adequate steering...
I have my car pretty balanced so that the front tires look just marginally more scrubbed than the rears, try using 8.5 degree castor, with 0 to .5 degree camber at the front.
Check that pully ring is inserted on the correct way...it should snap in to place
I started using the alloy pulleys, and they lock in, without the need for gluing
06-04-2002, 04:56 PM
#2226
could someone please list the parts required to make the Roll centre mod..
I have seen some pics of Teemu's car from the worlds, using this mod with rubber tires, and would like to give it a try
I have seen some pics of Teemu's car from the worlds, using this mod with rubber tires, and would like to give it a try
06-04-2002, 05:23 PM
#2227
golden tire secret
Darkseid, There is alot about tires that people don't understand, and that's because they're incredibly complicated. Rc isn't as technical, but most 1:1 scale race tires are 20,000 degree of freedom systems. Mind blowing stuff when you get into it!
Anyway, the Key is to understand what your tire is doing. There is a measurement called the slip angle, it's the angle between where the tire is pointing and where it is actually going. Imagine it as a small amount permanent understeer (on the front) created by the deformation of the tire and insert under lateral load. It is not a bad thing, without it there would be no grip, but you have to use it. For a constant vertical load (ie static weight of the car on that wheel+weight tranfer to that wheel+downforce) the amount of lateral grip (therefore cornering grip) will rise as the slip angle increases, UP TO A POINT! Over a certain angle, normally around 5-8 degrees, the grip starts to drop off again as you overwork the tire. Generally if it is a steady state understeer, you have too little angle and so increasing the weight on the tire will give you more grip, if the harder you turn the wheel once understeer starts the more it washes out, then your angle is too high and you have overshot the point of best grip. If you can know what your car is doing, then tuning close to the optimum point or on the uphill slope will give you much better tire life.
You might be confused to know that the graph of lateral grip vs vertical load changes according to tire pressure (insert and air gap) as well as camber and king pin index, but it gets really complicated.
In the coming weeks I plan to make a detailed study of the Mission geometry like moving roll centers and pitch centres, amounts of weight transfer and a huge amont of tire study. It'll remove alot of guesswork and experimentation from racing.
Anyway, the Key is to understand what your tire is doing. There is a measurement called the slip angle, it's the angle between where the tire is pointing and where it is actually going. Imagine it as a small amount permanent understeer (on the front) created by the deformation of the tire and insert under lateral load. It is not a bad thing, without it there would be no grip, but you have to use it. For a constant vertical load (ie static weight of the car on that wheel+weight tranfer to that wheel+downforce) the amount of lateral grip (therefore cornering grip) will rise as the slip angle increases, UP TO A POINT! Over a certain angle, normally around 5-8 degrees, the grip starts to drop off again as you overwork the tire. Generally if it is a steady state understeer, you have too little angle and so increasing the weight on the tire will give you more grip, if the harder you turn the wheel once understeer starts the more it washes out, then your angle is too high and you have overshot the point of best grip. If you can know what your car is doing, then tuning close to the optimum point or on the uphill slope will give you much better tire life.
You might be confused to know that the graph of lateral grip vs vertical load changes according to tire pressure (insert and air gap) as well as camber and king pin index, but it gets really complicated.
In the coming weeks I plan to make a detailed study of the Mission geometry like moving roll centers and pitch centres, amounts of weight transfer and a huge amont of tire study. It'll remove alot of guesswork and experimentation from racing.
06-04-2002, 05:54 PM
#2228
Tech Champion
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
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Darkseid....Whats the tires that you and everyone else is running at your track and what inserts? King-G is right on about the steering lock you should not have to go to full lock on the arm to get the car around the track. You only need about like he said 70 to 80% throw, if at 100% you are on the lock stops. I was having the same problem with the life of my tires but only in the front are you having the samething or are both ends of the car wearing the tires out quickly? Also less camber will help with the wear of the tires too.
As far as the Pully the rounded edge goes on first towards the belt you might want to check to make sure this is how you have it. I have never had one fall of yet or needed to glue them they are very hard to get on when put on correctly so there is no need for glue unless something is not molded corectly. If this is the case get a new one and see how it works out.
As far as the Pully the rounded edge goes on first towards the belt you might want to check to make sure this is how you have it. I have never had one fall of yet or needed to glue them they are very hard to get on when put on correctly so there is no need for glue unless something is not molded corectly. If this is the case get a new one and see how it works out.
Last edited by Kevin K; 06-04-2002 at 05:56 PM.
06-04-2002, 05:54 PM
#2229
King-G- I have full steering dailed into my car. I'll dial some of it out and see if that helps.
Yes, I have it on the way its supposed to be. It snapped on when I first assembled the kit. It fell off on my second practice run. I glued it on and it stayed for a long time. Then it fell off again, and now again last Sunday. I put it on again and I'll keep an eye on it and see what it does.
Yes, I have it on the way its supposed to be. It snapped on when I first assembled the kit. It fell off on my second practice run. I glued it on and it stayed for a long time. Then it fell off again, and now again last Sunday. I put it on again and I'll keep an eye on it and see what it does.
06-04-2002, 07:17 PM
#2230
welcome BagofSkill, great to see you've found the forum (not sure if ive seen you post in here before)...
Your tuning of 1:1 scale racers will be a great asset to us on the Schumacher team, I will look forward to hearing of your findings...
Chris and I will hopefully get to race with you soon...are you planning to come down to the autosalon in July?..if not we have a big event towards the end of the year at tftr..then we will be heading up to Kambah for the Nats...
What have you found with the inboard toe in your car front and rear?..
I like the rear set to 0 inboard, with around 2 - 2.5 outboard...and I'm undecided on the front inboard, as i havent had enough opportunity to test it extensively yet.
I plan to make the front Roll centre mod to my car soon, but would like to get the maximum out of the car before doing so.
please post anything you discover in here, lets keep the wealth of information flowing.
Your tuning of 1:1 scale racers will be a great asset to us on the Schumacher team, I will look forward to hearing of your findings...
Chris and I will hopefully get to race with you soon...are you planning to come down to the autosalon in July?..if not we have a big event towards the end of the year at tftr..then we will be heading up to Kambah for the Nats...
What have you found with the inboard toe in your car front and rear?..
I like the rear set to 0 inboard, with around 2 - 2.5 outboard...and I'm undecided on the front inboard, as i havent had enough opportunity to test it extensively yet.
I plan to make the front Roll centre mod to my car soon, but would like to get the maximum out of the car before doing so.
please post anything you discover in here, lets keep the wealth of information flowing.
Last edited by King-G; 06-04-2002 at 07:20 PM.
06-04-2002, 07:53 PM
#2231
JOHNNYSOCKO, Forgive me, but I do not recognize your username?????? I feel bad. You obvious know all of us.
Mo is running for Corally now. He's been practicing a lot with the 12th scale. Pulfer is running 8th scale gas. Eli is running gas as well. A lot of the guys went out to Joyce Park for the summer, but a few of us are staying on the rug......
Let me know who this is
sorry
Rob Love
FLEEEEEEEEEETWOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Mo is running for Corally now. He's been practicing a lot with the 12th scale. Pulfer is running 8th scale gas. Eli is running gas as well. A lot of the guys went out to Joyce Park for the summer, but a few of us are staying on the rug......
Let me know who this is
sorryRob Love
FLEEEEEEEEEETWOOOOOOOOOOOOD
06-05-2002, 12:40 PM
#2233
Adrian, I spoke with Paul today. If you still need to talk let me know. I think he covered what you were wanting........ Thanks!!
I just didn't want to leave you hanging....
I just didn't want to leave you hanging....
06-05-2002, 12:41 PM
#2234
I'll call back Monday for a full report.........
06-05-2002, 04:19 PM
#2235
diffs
I just got the car a few weeks ago and the diffs came pre-made obviously...ran them for a few race days and they really feel gritty now. I cleaned the whole diff out and sprayed it with motor spray so it was like new and then re-lubed everything per-instructions and the diffs feel pretty good...but not like my TC3 diffs ever did. Are there any little tricks that you guys are doing? I notice that the thrust washers are slotted...anyone try flat washers? I used Associated stealth lube and black grease to build it. I know the manual says only use the Schuie stuff...but gimmie a break :P