Shock Mounting Position vs. Shock Oil Change
01-11-2010, 06:15 AM
#1
Shock Mounting Position vs. Shock Oil Change
I was wondering if going to a lighter weight shock oil softens dampening and making the shocks more inclined also softens dampening, what is the difference between the two? Could I achieve the same results by going to a softer shock oil rather than incline the shocks? Or is shock position a greater change in magnitude while shock oil is fine tuning within that?
01-11-2010, 06:23 AM
#2
Inclining the shock (laying it down) is actually equivalent to softening the spring rate. It is a fine adjustment, generally finer than actually changing the spring. Does not affect the damping.
The only thing that affects the damping on the car is the dampers themselves.
The only thing that affects the damping on the car is the dampers themselves.
01-11-2010, 06:46 AM
#4
I was wondering if going to a lighter weight shock oil softens dampening and making the shocks more inclined also softens dampening, what is the difference between the two? Could I achieve the same results by going to a softer shock oil rather than incline the shocks? Or is shock position a greater change in magnitude while shock oil is fine tuning within that?
01-11-2010, 06:58 AM
#5
I was wondering if going to a lighter weight shock oil softens dampening and making the shocks more inclined also softens dampening, what is the difference between the two? Could I achieve the same results by going to a softer shock oil rather than incline the shocks? Or is shock position a greater change in magnitude while shock oil is fine tuning within that?
01-11-2010, 07:58 AM
#6
FYI: It's damping, and not dampening. Just like it's dampers, and not dampeners. "Dampening" is something you do with a wet towel... 
01-11-2010, 08:20 AM
#7
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/damping
01-11-2010, 09:02 AM
#8
I asked Paul L on his thread a similar question, he basically said that the two adjustements don't cross over, i.e. one won't make the other better or worse, the are both independent and specific.
01-11-2010, 10:24 AM
#9
It all depends on what you are trying to do, OP. If you are looking for more rear grip, usually standing the shocks up give more grip and also more stress on the tire. You could try that before changing shock oils or springs.
Little steps. Something beaten into me by the racers at my track.
Little steps. Something beaten into me by the racers at my track.
01-11-2010, 10:40 AM
#10
I am not sure I can explain this in a way that makes sense but here goes.
Upper shock position primarily changes the car's roll resistance. Yes it does affect the wheel rate too but only slightly unless it's a drastic change.
Basically the car "feels" bumps at the lower shock/spring mount. This determines the motion ratio and when multiplied by the spring rate or damping rate, determines the car's wheel rate (the actual resistance to movement at the wheel).
In roll, it's a bit different. The car "feels" the springs and shocks in roll primarily through the upper mount. Moving them closer to the center of the car shortens the lever arm, making the car softer in roll while having only a slight change in bounce (again, unless we are talking about a drastic change). This would be useful if you felt the car was already as soft as it could go without excessive bottoming but still wanted the car to roll more in corners. If you wanted the car to roll less in the corners but you feel stiffer springs and shocks would hurt it over the bumps, moving the upper mount out might be the answer.
A simpler way to think about it is to consider upper shock mount changes to be similar to a sway bar change. Moving them in is like softening the bar (except that your damping rate in roll is also getting a bit softer) while moving them out is like stiffening the bar.
Upper shock position primarily changes the car's roll resistance. Yes it does affect the wheel rate too but only slightly unless it's a drastic change.
Basically the car "feels" bumps at the lower shock/spring mount. This determines the motion ratio and when multiplied by the spring rate or damping rate, determines the car's wheel rate (the actual resistance to movement at the wheel).
In roll, it's a bit different. The car "feels" the springs and shocks in roll primarily through the upper mount. Moving them closer to the center of the car shortens the lever arm, making the car softer in roll while having only a slight change in bounce (again, unless we are talking about a drastic change). This would be useful if you felt the car was already as soft as it could go without excessive bottoming but still wanted the car to roll more in corners. If you wanted the car to roll less in the corners but you feel stiffer springs and shocks would hurt it over the bumps, moving the upper mount out might be the answer.
A simpler way to think about it is to consider upper shock mount changes to be similar to a sway bar change. Moving them in is like softening the bar (except that your damping rate in roll is also getting a bit softer) while moving them out is like stiffening the bar.
01-11-2010, 11:01 AM
#11
So laying the shock down should increase mechanical grip in a roll then?
01-11-2010, 11:05 AM
#12
05-09-2011, 07:18 PM
#13
It all depends on what you are trying to do, OP. If you are looking for more rear grip, usually standing the shocks up give more grip and also more stress on the tire. You could try that before changing shock oils or springs.
Little steps. Something beaten into me by the racers at my track.
Little steps. Something beaten into me by the racers at my track.
05-09-2011, 09:29 PM
#14
I'd say try it. I was looking for more rear grip in my HB Cyclone so I laid the rear shocks down. Funny thing was, the further they were laid down from the position that I started with, the less rear mid corner grip I had until the car was totally loose.
Then I stood the shocks up just to have a go. Weird thing is, the rear started getting more planted when I stood the shocks up from where I started.
All the theories I read have stated that the opposite should happen. Confused.
Then I stood the shocks up just to have a go. Weird thing is, the rear started getting more planted when I stood the shocks up from where I started.
All the theories I read have stated that the opposite should happen. Confused.
05-11-2011, 04:05 AM
#15
I'd say try it. I was looking for more rear grip in my HB Cyclone so I laid the rear shocks down. Funny thing was, the further they were laid down from the position that I started with, the less rear mid corner grip I had until the car was totally loose.
Then I stood the shocks up just to have a go. Weird thing is, the rear started getting more planted when I stood the shocks up from where I started.
All the theories I read have stated that the opposite should happen. Confused.
Then I stood the shocks up just to have a go. Weird thing is, the rear started getting more planted when I stood the shocks up from where I started.
All the theories I read have stated that the opposite should happen. Confused.
I've had the same results with my cyclone. The more I stood up the rear the more planted it was. It came to the point where the car would not rotate and I had to dial in more steering. It suited my driving style tho, ended up dropping my lap times.....
