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Old 02-27-2011, 02:41 AM   #856
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Hi Paul,
Bit of a silly question to be honest, but its something I have always wanted to know.
When you go to a selection of race events do you guys, take a selection of bodyshells aswell?
As when following some of the events we can see that a certain shell is favourite, and most popular for that track.
But what is it, that makes you decide you should use this shell over another shell?
And what is your favourite shell to use, and does it change the characteristics of the car, from shell to shell?

thanks
Chris
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:05 PM   #857
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Default X-ray t3 2011

Paul, I've had the T3 2011 since it came out and just can't get it to handle the way I want it to handle. To summarize, it doesn't seems stable. It's capable of making the a main but I have to drive the wheels off of it. It's not consistent at all. Everyone else runs the lower roll centers at my track and I've always ran the middle one's. It seems more stable to me and seems to be smoother thru the corners. I changed them this weekend to the lower ones and the results was horrible the car is just jittery. It seems to loose traction in the rear. In the end I had 3 degrees of toe and camber and still just steps out. No matter what I do I just can't get it to handle the traction. Our carpet track is not a high bite track for sure. What can I do to make my car push? This car has never pushed once in it's life. I would like to start there and back it out to loose. I want it to be stable too. I want to pull the trigger and feel comfortable with it, and not waiting for it to step out at any minute. Last race my fast lap was a 13.3 this week it was a 13.6 but it was just a one lap wonder. Consistent around 14. On middle roll center it's consistent around 13.5, but I need to be consistent at 13.2. Or less.

I have a t209 that use for vta and on a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a ten. It goes where I want it to go. It's stable it's fast and always consistent. I know vta and tc spec are two different classes but I just can't seem to figure the t3 2011 out. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's never been over a 7 on it's best day. I run a Tekin speed controller and maybe I need to back the throttle profile down? I'll try anything at this point.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:09 PM   #858
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Originally Posted by jgraham37128 View Post
Paul, I've had the T3 2011 since it came out and just can't get it to handle the way I want it to handle. To summarize, it doesn't seems stable. It's capable of making the a main but I have to drive the wheels off of it. It's not consistent at all. Everyone else runs the lower roll centers at my track and I've always ran the middle one's. It seems more stable to me and seems to be smoother thru the corners. I changed them this weekend to the lower ones and the results was horrible the car is just jittery. It seems to loose traction in the rear. In the end I had 3 degrees of toe and camber and still just steps out. No matter what I do I just can't get it to handle the traction. Our carpet track is not a high bite track for sure. What can I do to make my car push? This car has never pushed once in it's life. I would like to start there and back it out to loose. I want it to be stable too. I want to pull the trigger and feel comfortable with it, and not waiting for it to step out at any minute. Last race my fast lap was a 13.3 this week it was a 13.6 but it was just a one lap wonder. Consistent around 14. On middle roll center it's consistent around 13.5, but I need to be consistent at 13.2. Or less.

I have a t209 that use for vta and on a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a ten. It goes where I want it to go. It's stable it's fast and always consistent. I know vta and tc spec are two different classes but I just can't seem to figure the t3 2011 out. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's never been over a 7 on it's best day. I run a Tekin speed controller and maybe I need to back the throttle profile down? I'll try anything at this point.
Jason your car was really good the last time I drove it. What were you using for tire compound today? Are you still trying to use sticky fingers or something besides Paragon? When you went to low roll centers you also have to do the complete setup...not just change the roll centers. Hex sizes are a must as well as I am sure Paul will say.

I'll be back next week. Kids BDay was today.

EA
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:24 PM   #859
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Jason your car was really good the last time I drove it. What were you using for tire compound today? Are you still trying to use sticky fingers or something besides Paragon? When you went to low roll centers you also have to do the complete setup...not just change the roll centers. Hex sizes are a must as well as I am sure Paul will say.

I'll be back next week. Kids BDay was today.

EA
Yes, and it was on the middle roll centers. I used sxt for traction compound. I don't think it's the traction compound I just want it to be as stable as your car is and able to hit 12.9 consistently. Everyone else seems to run the lowers but I can't seem to get it to feel right to me. With my car on the middle roll centers it feels fine but it needs about two or three tenths consistently to keep up. I'm stuck at the point to where the car is pretty fast but I want it to be as fast as any one else on the track and today it's a wonder I made the a main and I was driving the wheels off of it.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:27 PM   #860
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Yes, and it was on the middle roll centers. I used sxt for traction compound. I don't think it's the traction compound I just want it to be as stable as your car is and able to hit 12.9 consistently. Everyone else seems to run the lowers but I can't seem to get it to feel right to me. With my car on the middle roll centers it feels fine but it needs about two or three tenths consistently to keep up. I'm stuck at the point to where the car is pretty fast but I want it to be as fast as any one else on the track and today it's a wonder I made the a main and I was driving the wheels off of it.
You cant use anything but Paragon at our track because so many people run it. Ive tried all kinds and it has no grip on our carpet with paragon being used. If everyone was using Sxt it would be OK but not when mixed. I can almost guarantee you that its your tire sauce and prep that is causing issues.

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Old 03-02-2011, 08:49 AM   #861
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Hi all, i was at a race in BC Canada over the weekend and im just now getting caught up, sorry for the delay.



Quote:
Originally Posted by arn671 View Post
Hey Paul or EA, I noticed that in some of the carpet set-up you guys have listed you're going with up to 5mm of spacers in the rear uprights, to help clear the rims you go to the xray ball-cups with the holes in them. My question is whether or not you compensate for the difference in height of the ballstud/ball cup combo vs the stock captured ball/cup system? EA's snowbirds set for example-would it be 5mm spacer under the ballstud? I measured the difference between the stock cup/ball vs ballstud/cup system and the height difference is 1+ mm would I then run 4mm spacers or the 5mm spacer? Thanks in advance!
Hi. yes i would compinsate for the difference in ball studs. I have been using the ball stud/cups on this car from the begining while setting up this car.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Chris Lovely View Post
Hi Paul,
Bit of a silly question to be honest, but its something I have always wanted to know.
When you go to a selection of race events do you guys, take a selection of bodyshells aswell?
As when following some of the events we can see that a certain shell is favourite, and most popular for that track.
But what is it, that makes you decide you should use this shell over another shell?
And what is your favourite shell to use, and does it change the characteristics of the car, from shell to shell?

thanks
Chris
Hi Chris. Different bodys feel different on the track to me for sure. I sometimes bring different bodys to races and test them but normally i end up saying that the feel was different but the lap time dosent change. I used the P37 body at the snowbirds, I think it has a little more steering and roll than the mazda but i cant say that i was faster with it that my speed 6.
If i had to bring one body to a race i would pick a light weight speed6, but its always nice to try different ones just to see how they make the car drive.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgraham37128 View Post
Paul, I've had the T3 2011 since it came out and just can't get it to handle the way I want it to handle. To summarize, it doesn't seems stable. It's capable of making the a main but I have to drive the wheels off of it. It's not consistent at all. Everyone else runs the lower roll centers at my track and I've always ran the middle one's. It seems more stable to me and seems to be smoother thru the corners. I changed them this weekend to the lower ones and the results was horrible the car is just jittery. It seems to loose traction in the rear. In the end I had 3 degrees of toe and camber and still just steps out. No matter what I do I just can't get it to handle the traction. Our carpet track is not a high bite track for sure. What can I do to make my car push? This car has never pushed once in it's life. I would like to start there and back it out to loose. I want it to be stable too. I want to pull the trigger and feel comfortable with it, and not waiting for it to step out at any minute. Last race my fast lap was a 13.3 this week it was a 13.6 but it was just a one lap wonder. Consistent around 14. On middle roll center it's consistent around 13.5, but I need to be consistent at 13.2. Or less.

I have a t209 that use for vta and on a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a ten. It goes where I want it to go. It's stable it's fast and always consistent. I know vta and tc spec are two different classes but I just can't seem to figure the t3 2011 out. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's never been over a 7 on it's best day. I run a Tekin speed controller and maybe I need to back the throttle profile down? I'll try anything at this point.
Hi Jason. your car would be stable if you copy the Cleveland set up completely but with 0.5deg front camber, 3deg rear camber and 2deg caster blocks. If its still loose after that you can send it to me and i will do something about it. .

With reguards to what EA said about the tire sauce, he is correct when saying that you are almost always best off on carpet running the "popular" sauce at your track. Example: I know that Sticky fingers is a good sauce but at the Birds i got cought sleeping at the end with it because most people switched to SXT, and sticky didnt work well for me anymore.

Thanks, good luck.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:17 PM   #862
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Hi Paul,

What are your current thoughts about drilled shock caps ( zero rebound ) vs non drilled. Specifically I'm trying to prepare for the carpet nats where grip should be high at Timezone II.
Also, I know this is subjective on my part but your setups tend to make the car a bit pushy for amateurs like me. Is this because you ( and most of the top tier drivers ) use trail braking into the corner whereas the less experienced have a hard time diving in to a corner while late/trail braking ( transfering weight forward ) as aggressively as ya'll do ? or is it that a mod setup is different from a stock setup ? or, or , or

A more general question would be what separates the best drivers from the rest ?

Thanks in advance for your time !! and see you at TZ !

Cheers,

Jake
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:33 PM   #863
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Hi Paul,

What are your current thoughts about drilled shock caps ( zero rebound ) vs non drilled. Specifically I'm trying to prepare for the carpet nats where grip should be high at Timezone II.
Also, I know this is subjective on my part but your setups tend to make the car a bit pushy for amateurs like me. Is this because you ( and most of the top tier drivers ) use trail braking into the corner whereas the less experienced have a hard time diving in to a corner while late/trail braking ( transfering weight forward ) as aggressively as ya'll do ? or is it that a mod setup is different from a stock setup ? or, or , or

A more general question would be what separates the best drivers from the rest ?

Thanks in advance for your time !! and see you at TZ !

Cheers,

Jake
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:50 PM   #864
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Hi Paul,

Thanks for coming to the Great White North, and thanks for the help on the weekend.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:21 PM   #865
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Cool xray link II

havent seen or heard much about anyone else running the car...any more support or parts coming out for this thing? I am starting to feel like i got a lemon, especially considering i had to buy option parts from team tamale and hot bodies to get it stay with the pack? any input or info on someone who drives this car would be great...thanks
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:42 AM   #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnet Top View Post
Hi Paul,

What are your current thoughts about drilled shock caps ( zero rebound ) vs non drilled. Specifically I'm trying to prepare for the carpet nats where grip should be high at Timezone II.
Also, I know this is subjective on my part but your setups tend to make the car a bit pushy for amateurs like me. Is this because you ( and most of the top tier drivers ) use trail braking into the corner whereas the less experienced have a hard time diving in to a corner while late/trail braking ( transfering weight forward ) as aggressively as ya'll do ? or is it that a mod setup is different from a stock setup ? or, or , or

A more general question would be what separates the best drivers from the rest ?

Thanks in advance for your time !! and see you at TZ !

Cheers,

Jake
Hi Jake. i still like to drill my shock caps, i always feel like the car is easier to drive and makes rounder corners with the caps drilled at 0 or close to 0 rebound. as for the push of my set ups im not sure, some say they have good steering and some say they dont. most of my suggestions on this thread are suggestions to make the rear more stuck, but only BC that is what people mainly ask on the thread.
If your looking for more steering off of my current set ups it should be easy to get. More front camber, less rear camber, more rear weight or shorter rear wheelbase, longer front wheelbase, more caster or kick up, less rear toe, etc.

As for what sets some drivers apart from others i beleive that it is all in the throttle. being smooth and knowing when more trigger is not going to physically make the car go faster in any section, and timing your lifting points to your steering input to where it will set the car properly in every section.

Thanks!



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Hi Paul,

Thanks for coming to the Great White North, and thanks for the help on the weekend.

No problem, I had a blast getting to meet everyone!


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Originally Posted by artoftatt2 View Post
havent seen or heard much about anyone else running the car...any more support or parts coming out for this thing? I am starting to feel like i got a lemon, especially considering i had to buy option parts from team tamale and hot bodies to get it stay with the pack? any input or info on someone who drives this car would be great...thanks
Hi. can you be more specific as to what model exactly you are talking about, I assume the pan car BC that is the model that we have done the most work on from the kit. Thanks
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:43 AM   #867
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the x ray link II..
that is the 12th scale pan car...
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:22 PM   #868
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the x ray link II..
that is the 12th scale pan car...
Great.
Their are some things that I have been doing to the car that i feel have made it better.
The TC and nitro cars are so turn key out of the box because the team that we have around the world is specialised in those classes and the information flows from the team to the public so very well.
Personally i have never been well rounded in the pan classes so sometimes i feel like if i dont have the best information to offer i may be best not saying anything. I think now i am getting ok with setting up our 12th car.

here is basicly everything i know about 12th scale along with some things that i changed as well.



Front end:
In the front end i use the Middle cam for the reactive caster, for the caster clips i use the large clip in back with the med and small clip in front. Keep in mind that less caster will make the car easier to drive with less steering.
The Plastic suspension balls (pn 373241) are a must in my mind, these will keep the car more consistent all the way around the track.

I use associated long 22front springs in my car, with these i use 0 front droop.
I set the front droop by shimming the king pin untill i see the smallest amount of droop on both sides when i lift up the front end off of the table, then i add a .2mm shim to both sides and then you will have 0droop, the spring wont be super preloaded and the preload will be equal from side to side also.

I use Xray 30,000 lube on the king pins and i polish the king pins also.

I shim the front sus uprights closer together by 3mms per side, By this I trim the Boss off of the inside of the lower arm and use 3mms of spacers in between the arm and the upright, you will have to use longer button head screws in doing so. The result of this is that your upper arm will be longer, in doing so your front end will have less camber gain and more consistent bump steer. the result on the track with this will be a car that is easier to drive.

I use CRC pink or majenta tires at 41.5mmFT and 42mmR for high bite, for lower bite i would use 42.5mmF and 43mm rear. Front ride height shimmed between 3 and 3.5mms.


Shocks:
For the side shock i reccomend Xray 250wt oil, anything thicker with the solid piston is too thick for me.

For the stock center shock I use 800-1000wt cst oil, 800 for bumpy tracks and 1000 for smooth tracks. the thicker oil makes the car much better for me on power and more consistent all the way around.
When building the center shock with stock spring i leave it with a good amount of rebound, you can push the shaft all the way in but it will come all the way back out.


Side springs/cross brace:
I shim up the cross brace off the chassis by 1.5mm, and top plate off the pod by 1.5mm. by shimming the cross brace up it allows more room for the side springs and allows for the side springs to not be preloaded with the pod at rest. By shimming up the top plate off of the pod it allows the side shock to have the room it needs to have a good range of travel.
I have been using speedmerchant Med side springs, they have a larger set screw and spring retainer for the side spring preload adjustment, I drilled out the holes on the cross brace for the set screws to use these springs.
springs: speedmerchant PN 5065.

For the side spring preload i allow both springs to touch the links with the car on the table, but not to be preloaded. the more preload you put on the side springs the more initial steering you will have but i feel like the car will handle the most consistent with both springs just bairly touching.

Rear pod, ride height and rear droop:
I set the ride height of the pod itself at 4mm. the pod will then have sag while setting the ride height of the chassis (with center shock preload) to between 3 and 3.5 mms at the chassis. this means that the chassis will be flat or close to it from front to back but the pod will have some angle in it while resting on the pit board. That will set the rideheight of the car.

For droop I will adjust the legnth of the center shock to allow the pod to droop just on the other side of level. I eyeball it, but if you can amajine the sag that the pod has in compairison to the chassis resting at ride height, it will have the opposite amount of sag in the other direction for droop
Keep in mind that when making the shock longer or shorter you will be adjusting the ride height as well, so you will have to compinsate with preload on the spring to get it just right on the table.


That is all i know, LOL. I Hope some of it helps.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:59 PM   #869
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Hi paul
i wanted to ask is there such a thing as gearing efficiency.
The reason i ask is i recently went from an fdr of 8.8 using a 18 t pinion and 84t spur to an fdr of 6.9 using a 23pinion and 84t spur, this seems to have mad a slight off power drag effect creating alot more off power steering. is this somthing you have noticed. how would you compensate for this.
Btw i always use 0 drag brake.
also could you direct me to a good setup for the t3 2010 on rubber , tight carpet track . medium traction. most setups seem to be very close to the xray factory setup or is that a good setup to stick with, im looking for a bit more responsive car without loosing to much grip.

Thanks! matt
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:37 PM   #870
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thank you!
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