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Old 10-10-2010, 09:42 PM   #526
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hi paul, million dollar question for you

myself and a friend both have a t3. his car will understeer and then oversteer rather than rotating around the corner, so you need to slide it around. My car will rotate really well around the corner and then fail to straighten up on exit a bit.

my question is what would cause this difference?

we have swapped electronics, shocks, springs, diffs and bodies without any changes to either car. i have also given his car a look over and set it up from scratch (tweak droop ride height camber etc...) and this also made no difference. we are also running our weights in the same place. if you put the two cars next to each other the only difference is the colour of the wires going to the motor, absolutely nothing else. also our suspension moves freely on both cars

any ideas? we're lost

cheers

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Old 10-10-2010, 09:56 PM   #527
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I've got one for you---change the chassis!! I know it's a lot of work---but I'll bet you'll find the difference is there!! Just because they look the same--it doesn't mean their from the same run of carbon. Or maybe one of your cars took a big "Hit" and that flexed the chassis to extreme. I'll bet you'll find the difference there/----
sorry--- didn't mean to hijack Paul's thread.
I'm interested in what he thinks this could be coming from too!!!!
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:27 PM   #528
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thanks for the idea, but ive had 2 chassis on my car and they feel the same. and he has had this problem with an 2 pro 4's an fk05 a 008 and now his t3 lol. so its something he does, but we cant see what we do differently
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Old 10-10-2010, 11:43 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribbin View Post
thanks for the idea, but ive had 2 chassis on my car and they feel the same. and he has had this problem with an 2 pro 4's an fk05 a 008 and now his t3 lol. so its something he does, but we cant see what we do differently
Is his Radio setup the same from all of the cars? Set something different to yours?
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:37 AM   #530
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Steering throw is what I found to cause push because the tires were scrubbing out and then sliding, when I dialed out some steering travel and took it back to around 80-90% the car flowed and rolled a lot nicer through the corners, might be worth checking if you haven't allready
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:03 AM   #531
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Radio setups the same. I reckon it has to be with the weight distribution on the chassis, even though we have the electronics in the same spot. It is something not visually obvious.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:47 AM   #532
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Paul, have you ever had the feeling that the short shocks may be just a touch to short on the car. When the car is completely compressed the shock is still within its stroke but when running higher ride height and trying to achieve the same droop setting I find my front shocks seem to short. Do you just unscrew the lower mount or do you ever try running the long shocks?

Thanks
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:29 AM   #533
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Cribbin- Two major things that Paul helped me with and I have tried that will help or kill steering is the wing on your body and diff. I usually ran my wing pretty far off my body, and diff more on the tight side and my car always pushed when my buddies car with the same stuff would steer like crazy. Thinner diff fluid (or looser ball diff if you run that), and the wing a few mm's from flush with the bumper and my car steers really well now
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:02 PM   #534
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Hi Guys, I have been out of town for a couple of weeks at races. sorry that im just getting to this stuff now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickrcarver View Post
Paul what electronics do you run now? and what did you run on your 009 rubber car?
In 09 I use futaba 9550 servo and futaba dsm receiver, LRP sxxtc speedo's and trinity pulse mod motors. with the new car i will most likely use a bigger servo, and im testing with the new Thunderpower Motors.

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
That is incredible and its also the reason that I am not even a decent club racer. Let alone pro.

Is this why certain A-list racers perform like gods under certain conditions, but at other events can't seem to find their groove? Is the differrence between spot on and way off that finite?
I definately think its very important, the best driver dose not win every time, but the best car dose not iether. lol

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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Paul, I am working on set up as usual and have been blending some of your set up's with Alex Hagbergs worlds and input from some local mod racers. This set up is great on medium traction with great tyre wear but sometimes our track doesn't quite make it to that level where I am finding the rear over rotating a bit. how would you remedy this? I am thinking of changing back to 2 hole rear hubs with a long link and going back to the L roll adjusters and a mm less shim.

Set up is here. http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...=1801&setup=t3

thoughts appreciated as always. Benzaah
Hi. my favorite three things to lock the rear end in are always, Camber (more rear, less front), wheelbase (shorter in the front or longer in the rear) and toe (more rear toe). its pretty obvious but i find them to work the same for every serface, tire etc.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by kghills View Post
Hey Paul. Jason ran at Trackside for the SNF start this weekend. Over 120 entries. Podiumed in 4 of the 5 classes he ran.

Was able to pick up the 4pks. It seems to be very nice. I think it will make a difference. I have two models programed in already. Only like 15 more to go. Takes a little time to set up but I think once everything is in it will be very cool. Scotty gave Jason a little talk about taking care of it and he knows you use the same one so I think he feels it is special and will take care of it.

Thanks again for the guidance, Keith and Jason.

PS Tell Jim that the new 65C rated TP 2S rocks in the Jammin SCRT10 4x4 SCT
Hi Kieth, Im Glad to hear that everything is going good. tell Jason Good job for me. No problem, let me know if you need anything.
see ya!.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmig View Post
Just a post to say "thanks" to a class guy. I got the chance to see the Xray team at the KO Propo race this past weekend at WCRC in SoCal. Paul and Steve were both VERY nice in answering any question or even helping diagnose problems with other racers cars ---Xray or not!! VERY NICE guys--- and very FAST too!!! Paul especially was very approachable and helpful with any questions. Thank you! And a well deserved win in the 1/10 open class!!
Xray is lucky to have you guys!!!
T
, Thanks for the kind words, im glad that we were able to help you out in some way. hopefully ill see you at a nother on road race soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Paul YGPM. Thanks
got ya!, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribbin View Post
hi paul, million dollar question for you

myself and a friend both have a t3. his car will understeer and then oversteer rather than rotating around the corner, so you need to slide it around. My car will rotate really well around the corner and then fail to straighten up on exit a bit.

my question is what would cause this difference?

we have swapped electronics, shocks, springs, diffs and bodies without any changes to either car. i have also given his car a look over and set it up from scratch (tweak droop ride height camber etc...) and this also made no difference. we are also running our weights in the same place. if you put the two cars next to each other the only difference is the colour of the wires going to the motor, absolutely nothing else. also our suspension moves freely on both cars

any ideas? we're lost

cheers

ben
Wow, the color of the wire is my guess JK,LOL. I assume that you have swapped tires. your post is a testament to how sensitive a car can be to the smallest things. i would focus on how to make each car work better. for low bite i like to run more front weight, this gives the car a more natural traction feel, especially on exit. maybe try shifting some weight forward on the chassis. you could try less caster or just a bit of anti-dive also.
let me know if you figure it out, sorry i couldnt help more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmig View Post
I've got one for you---change the chassis!! I know it's a lot of work---but I'll bet you'll find the difference is there!! Just because they look the same--it doesn't mean their from the same run of carbon. Or maybe one of your cars took a big "Hit" and that flexed the chassis to extreme. I'll bet you'll find the difference there/----
sorry--- didn't mean to hijack Paul's thread.
I'm interested in what he thinks this could be coming from too!!!!
As good a suggestion as any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribbin View Post
thanks for the idea, but ive had 2 chassis on my car and they feel the same. and he has had this problem with an 2 pro 4's an fk05 a 008 and now his t3 lol. so its something he does, but we cant see what we do differently
Maybe he wrenches the screws super tight, a car will be stiffer if the deck and chassis screws are tighter. but i wouldnt loose sleep, i would just tune each car a bit different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yokomo_Ant3 View Post
Is his Radio setup the same from all of the cars? Set something different to yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by B4james View Post
Steering throw is what I found to cause push because the tires were scrubbing out and then sliding, when I dialed out some steering travel and took it back to around 80-90% the car flowed and rolled a lot nicer through the corners, might be worth checking if you haven't allready
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeelcold View Post
Radio setups the same. I reckon it has to be with the weight distribution on the chassis, even though we have the electronics in the same spot. It is something not visually obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Paul, have you ever had the feeling that the short shocks may be just a touch to short on the car. When the car is completely compressed the shock is still within its stroke but when running higher ride height and trying to achieve the same droop setting I find my front shocks seem to short. Do you just unscrew the lower mount or do you ever try running the long shocks?

Thanks
I bet that you have the clicker pistons in your shocks, i run the standard pistons and i have never had that problem. if so i would make the switch to 3 hole pistons with 400r 600F to start. hope thats it, Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO View Post
Cribbin- Two major things that Paul helped me with and I have tried that will help or kill steering is the wing on your body and diff. I usually ran my wing pretty far off my body, and diff more on the tight side and my car always pushed when my buddies car with the same stuff would steer like crazy. Thinner diff fluid (or looser ball diff if you run that), and the wing a few mm's from flush with the bumper and my car steers really well now
Thanks.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:16 PM   #535
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Thanks for thr reply Paul, but what would the purpous of a larger servo be? weight bias?
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:19 PM   #536
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Paul.....

Why does everyone in the NW have a head cold? It's like the plague around here!

Brian
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:44 PM   #537
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If I had run mod at the KO.....do you think you would have still won
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Old 10-16-2010, 02:53 AM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Wow, the color of the wire is my guess JK,LOL. I assume that you have swapped tires. your post is a testament to how sensitive a car can be to the smallest things. i would focus on how to make each car work better. for low bite i like to run more front weight, this gives the car a more natural traction feel, especially on exit. maybe try shifting some weight forward on the chassis. you could try less caster or just a bit of anti-dive also.
let me know if you figure it out, sorry i couldnt help more.

Maybe he wrenches the screws super tight, a car will be stiffer if the deck and chassis screws are tighter. but i wouldnt loose sleep, i would just tune each car a bit different..
Thanks Paul, It is a difficult thing to diagnose. One thing noticeable on the track is that my car rolls less than Cribbin's. You can see Cribbin's car leaning over more, its easier to drive into corners and holds ALOT more corner speed. Iv'e had a good play with setup including swapping all the parts over between the 2 cars (electronics and body included), and my car still has the same understeer.

The fix so far is for Cribbin to build my car and it works. Although it would be nice to know exactly what aspect of the car is having such a big effect as it would be a really good tuning tool.

Last edited by dontfeelcold; 10-16-2010 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 10-16-2010, 02:44 PM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickrcarver View Post
Thanks for thr reply Paul, but what would the purpous of a larger servo be? weight bias?
Yup, obvoiusly you could just run more lead next to a lighter servo also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapmaster6000 View Post
Paul.....

Why does everyone in the NW have a head cold? It's like the plague around here!

Brian
yea, im sorry. i think i started something pretty big. nothing like inflicting pain and suffering on several of my friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
If I had run mod at the KO.....do you think you would have still won
I definately think you would have taken me off my game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeelcold View Post
Thanks Paul, It is a difficult thing to diagnose. One thing noticeable on the track is that my car rolls less than Cribbin's. You can see Cribbin's car leaning over more, its easier to drive into corners and holds ALOT more corner speed. Iv'e had a good play with setup including swapping all the parts over between the 2 cars (electronics and body included), and my car still has the same understeer.

The fix so far is for Cribbin to build my car and it works. Although it would be nice to know exactly what aspect of the car is having such a big effect as it would be a really good tuning tool.
Man I dont know, it could be anything. 1/4th a deg of camber can make that difference for me, slop in the axles and ball cups ????. let me know if you figure it out.
sorry imnot a ton of help.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:51 PM   #540
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Paul,

Did you start the Hillbilly link? What made you try that?
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