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Old 11-22-2013, 10:03 AM   #2536
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OK Paul another one for ya . let's pretend Ur car is doing this . (its a issue I'm thinking I will have to face this weekend ,so I've been told )
Ur car feels fine for a few min into the run but at about the 4min mark u can definitely tell u tires r not acting the same . rear of car is getting loose . how would u handle this
Can u give a few different ways to cure this

Race day report:
OK Paul ran my sweeps yesterday on med high bite and agree they more traction .
I did experience the loose rear late in the run but figured that out pretty quick
I'm running a t4 13
My Jacob setup was OK .
Heat 1 : tho i did add a little rear camber and take away some front (.5 each way) it was tippie tho in a few corners .
Heat 2 : removed 1mm of rear droop (went from 3mm to 2mm over hide height ) was still traction roling .
3 heat: i glued outside sidewalls of tires and went to inside hole on inner camber links all around . car was pretty much perfect . it never tipped and could drive it hard without worries . (TQ this round)
Main : I had sensor wire issues but could tell car would have been even better but if we had one more round it probably would have traction rolled with the higher traction.
I was told traction this weekend at the champs is going to be a lot higher than this . so what other changes would u do to keep it on all 4 wheels ?
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:37 AM   #2537
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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Hi, I haven't run those tires in many many years. Maybe Hagberg has ?, otherwise i would just start with my normal set up and see how it goes. Wish i could be more help.

Thanks
Thanks Paul. I also asked the question on the Xray forum but Hagberg hasn't replied yet. So I guess he hasn't driven with them either.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:06 PM   #2538
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Originally Posted by morgoth View Post
Thanks Paul. I also asked the question on the Xray forum but Hagberg hasn't replied yet. So I guess he hasn't driven with them either.
Here's Alex's setup from the TCM 2013. Decent place to start on the LRP tires.

Alexander Hagberg - LRP TCM 2013

Edit: Found another one from the DHI Cup, also on CPX tires.

Alexander Hagberg - DHI Cup 2013
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:07 AM   #2539
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Well I tried the 1 mil weight in the front diff. I may have to give a it a week or two and learn to drive it.

Car was definitely slower compared to before and it could just be the setup change that required a different style. Had trouble getting into a groove. Car just felt on edge and a handful compared to before.

I was running a t4'13 carpet setup with the following changes from stock...
1 mm spacers on front inner links
500k front diff.

I went to 2mm front spacers on the links and changed to 1mil front diff. I am almost .5sec off my fastest lap pace.

What can I change to calm the car down but still get so e good corner speed?
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:50 AM   #2540
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hi Paul,hope you can help.to me my car felt great but still wasnt the quickest,is there anything you would change to get it going faster,motor speed is good,i think im looking for a bit more corner speed,i was running 28ry compared with the 32ry on the fastest car,could there be 4/10ths in a set of tyres,? i destroyed the fronts in 2 runs,but qualified 2secs off my summer pb,so ive made a huge improvement in lap times with the new car,the 3 guys around me only recently used to lap me so im actually getting used to cornering as fast as we do,so the times could be in my driving,im working on consistency more now
thanks for any info
ps im car 4 in the finals,it rained just before the second final
set up

http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2014

heres the lap times/results

http://aldershotmodelcarclub.net/wp-.../20131124f.pdf

heres the track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnp_...FLquMd&index=7
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Last edited by chasingthepack; 11-25-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:55 PM   #2541
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
OK Paul another one for ya . let's pretend Ur car is doing this . (its a issue I'm thinking I will have to face this weekend ,so I've been told )
Ur car feels fine for a few min into the run but at about the 4min mark u can definitely tell u tires r not acting the same . rear of car is getting loose . how would u handle this
Can u give a few different ways to cure this

Race day report:
OK Paul ran my sweeps yesterday on med high bite and agree they more traction .
I did experience the loose rear late in the run but figured that out pretty quick
I'm running a t4 13
My Jacob setup was OK .
Heat 1 : tho i did add a little rear camber and take away some front (.5 each way) it was tippie tho in a few corners .
Heat 2 : removed 1mm of rear droop (went from 3mm to 2mm over hide height ) was still traction roling .
3 heat: i glued outside sidewalls of tires and went to inside hole on inner camber links all around . car was pretty much perfect . it never tipped and could drive it hard without worries . (TQ this round)
Main : I had sensor wire issues but could tell car would have been even better but if we had one more round it probably would have traction rolled with the higher traction.
I was told traction this weekend at the champs is going to be a lot higher than this . so what other changes would u do to keep it on all 4 wheels ?
Hi. sorry for the delay. To me the cure to traction roll is to have the suspension soft enough to simply drag before it would be able to roll. This is partially why i normally use 2.3 springs with soft oil, then from their i will tune camber links, camber and ride height and weight placement for steering and balance. sounds like you are kinda close on set up since you did have some good success. also making sure that your car is tweaked perfect and all suspension components are free and polished will help traction roll a lot. I suppose i would go to the race and be ready to go softer on the front roll bar, spring and oil if it starts to flip.

good luck!

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Originally Posted by morgoth View Post
Thanks Paul. I also asked the question on the Xray forum but Hagberg hasn't replied yet. So I guess he hasn't driven with them either.
Hopefully he will get back to you, or maybe try him on FB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny-b23 View Post
Here's Alex's setup from the TCM 2013. Decent place to start on the LRP tires.

Alexander Hagberg - LRP TCM 2013

Edit: Found another one from the DHI Cup, also on CPX tires.

Alexander Hagberg - DHI Cup 2013
Nice! Thanks Danny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meradin View Post
Well I tried the 1 mil weight in the front diff. I may have to give a it a week or two and learn to drive it.

Car was definitely slower compared to before and it could just be the setup change that required a different style. Had trouble getting into a groove. Car just felt on edge and a handful compared to before.

I was running a t4'13 carpet setup with the following changes from stock...
1 mm spacers on front inner links
500k front diff.

I went to 2mm front spacers on the links and changed to 1mil front diff. I am almost .5sec off my fastest lap pace.

What can I change to calm the car down but still get so e good corner speed?
Wow, that is a lot off. I am surprised, It has been a while since i have used 500K in a front diff but i remember it being much too soft?. Anyways, I would try adding rear toe, maybe just .2mm to get 3.5 deg per side. I would also try going to a longer rear camber link on the inside, this should help the car not be so edgy. I would also take out some front camber and move your rear wing back and possibly a softer front sway bar. all these things will make the car easier to drive. worst comes to worst go back to the set up that has worked so well with the 500K diff, Maybe the track just likes it?

Good luck!
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:16 PM   #2542
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Originally Posted by chasingthepack View Post
hi Paul,hope you can help.to me my car felt great but still wasnt the quickest,is there anything you would change to get it going faster,motor speed is good,i think im looking for a bit more corner speed,i was running 28ry compared with the 32ry on the fastest car,could there be 4/10ths in a set of tyres,? i destroyed the fronts in 2 runs,but qualified 2secs off my summer pb,so ive made a huge improvement in lap times with the new car,the 3 guys around me only recently used to lap me so im actually getting used to cornering as fast as we do,so the times could be in my driving,im working on consistency more now
thanks for any info
ps im car 4 in the finals,it rained just before the second final
set up

http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2014

heres the lap times/results

http://aldershotmodelcarclub.net/wp-.../20131124f.pdf

heres the track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnp_...FLquMd&index=7


Hi. Track looks cool!. first off, definitely practice is everything, as you have seen such improvement it will happen over again with more and more practice. what is a 28 and 32 RY tire, Ride?.
The difference in the tire could be huge (good or bad) depending on the track temp, condition of tire etc, also tire prep on asphalt is Huge, so look in to what others are doing. The set up looks pretty proper, if you are looking for something like "more initial steering", "easier to drive on exit", "center of the corner rotation", etc, I can help for sure. I think the key is to be able to drive the car and tell yourself what the car needs to do better to enable you to drive different and in the end achieve more speed.

I know its kinda a BS answer but it really is how it works, I fall in to it every time i race off road, weather the car is good or bad i drive the same speed because i need a better connection with the car to make a change and drive it differently with that change to a better lap time. I think that only comes with more practice.

Thanks.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:42 PM   #2543
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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Hi. Track looks cool!. first off, definitely practice is everything, as you have seen such improvement it will happen over again with more and more practice. what is a 28 and 32 RY tire, Ride?.
The difference in the tire could be huge (good or bad) depending on the track temp, condition of tire etc, also tire prep on asphalt is Huge, so look in to what others are doing. The set up looks pretty proper, if you are looking for something like "more initial steering", "easier to drive on exit", "center of the corner rotation", etc, I can help for sure. I think the key is to be able to drive the car and tell yourself what the car needs to do better to enable you to drive different and in the end achieve more speed.

I know its kinda a BS answer but it really is how it works, I fall in to it every time i race off road, weather the car is good or bad i drive the same speed because i need a better connection with the car to make a change and drive it differently with that change to a better lap time. I think that only comes with more practice.

Thanks.
hi Paul,the tyres are sorex,what im trying to achive i guess is more turn in speed and the ability to hold it
heres some changes i was planning to make
2mm shims on all the shocks,to smooth out the transition through the chicane?
switch oils so 350 f 400 r , to give more turn in?
and add 1mm of ackerman,so as not to lose speed on the sweeper?

it does need quite a bit of steering to get it through the chicane,like it was sliding/understeering,but as said i did destroy them the 28's in 2 runs,so 32's would have been faster as they wouldnt have over heated?
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:28 AM   #2544
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Tks Paul . never really thought about the shock oils going thinner .
as far as front diff oils. Is this dependent on traction .
I been running 1mil in my fronts and haven't attempted to go and thicker . do u feel theirs more performance with thicker oils or us this traction level specific ?
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:43 AM   #2545
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Paul

What changes do you make to the car if you have had too much fun the night before the Mains at Applebee's? Add expo?
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:47 PM   #2546
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Originally Posted by chasingthepack View Post
hi Paul,the tyres are sorex,what im trying to achive i guess is more turn in speed and the ability to hold it
heres some changes i was planning to make
2mm shims on all the shocks,to smooth out the transition through the chicane?
switch oils so 350 f 400 r , to give more turn in?
and add 1mm of ackerman,so as not to lose speed on the sweeper?

it does need quite a bit of steering to get it through the chicane,like it was sliding/understeering,but as said i did destroy them the 28's in 2 runs,so 32's would have been faster as they wouldnt have over heated?
Hi!, 2mms on the shocks where?

Thicker front shock oil would be likely to give more turn in, the 1mm of ackerman shim will likely take away some initial steering but give you more on power steering. The softer the tire the better if it is not overheating, different tracks, temps, set ups and driving style will determine weather your tire was a advantage or a disadvantage, to hard to say without being their.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Tks Paul . never really thought about the shock oils going thinner .
as far as front diff oils. Is this dependent on traction .
I been running 1mil in my fronts and haven't attempted to go and thicker . do u feel theirs more performance with thicker oils or us this traction level specific ?
Honestly no, I have had really good success with 1million and 2.5 on high and low bite tracks. To me when my car is working really well i can get away with the 1million as apposed to the 2.5. I guess its a deal where if the car is happy it dose not need the thicker diff or spool to pull it around to go fast. Maybe??
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Paul

What changes do you make to the car if you have had too much fun the night before the Mains at Applebee's? Add expo?
LOL, yea couldn't hurt!
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:51 PM   #2547
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So, some of your recent comments about front diff oil got me thinking. Most setups I see are using 1mil or 2.5mil in the front. I did find that the lighter weight was a bit faster. I am going to stick with the 1mil for a while and see if I can learn to drive it as fast as my 500k. The pull out of the corner may make a difference.

I was thinking though as to what conditions would be better suited for each weight of diff. DFor example, I am not sure that it would do any good for me to copy someone else's setup as our track is drastically different than others.

We have a small track and I don't see us getting to the speeds other tracks may be seeing which would (in my mind) need a different setup.

There is a tickle in my head that says since the speeds are slower and the track smaller, with tighter turns, that a loose front diff would be better. I guess I am looking for a little validation on that thought. Does that seem to make sense?

Also, the carpet we use is indoor short nap carpet you would get in a home store, not specific to racing needs. Anyone have an idea on the traction level that is? I know it was better than the other track I raced on and they had the ozite carpet.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:57 PM   #2548
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Paul, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family from the Hadley R/C Club.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:41 PM   #2549
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Paul, on your IIC setup, you've got 4mm of bumpsteer spacers, which is the default asphalt setting. Hagberg's and default carpet setup are both 1mm. That seems like a big difference. Can you comment on why you ran it your way?

-Mike
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:12 AM   #2550
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Originally Posted by Meradin View Post
So, some of your recent comments about front diff oil got me thinking. Most setups I see are using 1mil or 2.5mil in the front. I did find that the lighter weight was a bit faster. I am going to stick with the 1mil for a while and see if I can learn to drive it as fast as my 500k. The pull out of the corner may make a difference.

I was thinking though as to what conditions would be better suited for each weight of diff. DFor example, I am not sure that it would do any good for me to copy someone else's setup as our track is drastically different than others.

We have a small track and I don't see us getting to the speeds other tracks may be seeing which would (in my mind) need a different setup.

There is a tickle in my head that says since the speeds are slower and the track smaller, with tighter turns, that a loose front diff would be better. I guess I am looking for a little validation on that thought. Does that seem to make sense?

Also, the carpet we use is indoor short nap carpet you would get in a home store, not specific to racing needs. Anyone have an idea on the traction level that is? I know it was better than the other track I raced on and they had the ozite carpet.
What your saying about the diff totally makes sense in my head too but i haven't been able to prove it on a consistent basis, for instance sometimes i like the 1 million on Huge outdoor tracks. This is why i think it has to do with simply how proper the set up is for that specific scenario, I think the better the car is set up, the lighter the front diff oil can be. If the car is working great it is settled in to the track, not unloading etc so you can get away with a lighter front diff and still have good drive. all speculation

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Paul, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family from the Hadley R/C Club.
Thanks, you too!!. hope you guys are all well!

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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Paul, on your IIC setup, you've got 4mm of bumpsteer spacers, which is the default asphalt setting. Hagberg's and default carpet setup are both 1mm. That seems like a big difference. Can you comment on why you ran it your way?

-Mike
Hi Mike, the 4mm is just something that i liked when we first tested the t4, honestly i just haven't gone back and tested it since. initially when i did it i felt like i got more steering in the center of the corner but im sure with different tracks it can go both ways.



Happy thanksgiving everyone!!
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