5LikesTraction Rolling
12-15-2009, 01:00 PM
#31
All of the cars you mentioned are fairly close geometry wise, and in theory should all be capable, its really up to the setup and driver.
12-15-2009, 01:01 PM
#32
I couldn't disagree more. Softening up suspension delays the maximum cornering load, thus delaying the traction roll. I won't bore everyone with a rehash of the Type-R thread, but my traction rolling issue is well documented over there and the things we did to cure it worked quite well.
Your suggestion to stiffen the suspension assumes that the tire's traction can be breached at some point during the corner. However, B18C Turbo lives in New England, land of spec rubber tire touring cars on CRC carpet and odorless traction compounds. The bite there is literally sticky, and breaching that is next to impossible.
Letting the car roll is also key to preventing the outside tires from reaching maximum loading, so adding roll stiffness is completely backwards.
Guys, consider this. What does a touring car do in the moment right before it traction rolls? It bicycles. That two wheeled circus stunt places the entire weight of the car on the two outside tires. With weight comes traction. That traction spike flips the car over. Doing anything that reduces droop, constricts suspension movement, or otherwise quickens tire loading is counterproductive.
Some of the more important things I did to cure my traction roll (and win) on carpet with rubber tires:
-lay the shocks down
-reduce camber
-reduce roll stiffness (springs and swaybars)
-adjust dampening to delay maximum loading (in my case, I had to increase front dampening to get through the sweeper without traction rolling, used a ton of rebound to improve transitional response)
-lower roll centers
-reduce caster (Paulie's trick)
-add droop to all four corners (thanks Fairtrace)
Your suggestion to stiffen the suspension assumes that the tire's traction can be breached at some point during the corner. However, B18C Turbo lives in New England, land of spec rubber tire touring cars on CRC carpet and odorless traction compounds. The bite there is literally sticky, and breaching that is next to impossible.
Letting the car roll is also key to preventing the outside tires from reaching maximum loading, so adding roll stiffness is completely backwards.
Guys, consider this. What does a touring car do in the moment right before it traction rolls? It bicycles. That two wheeled circus stunt places the entire weight of the car on the two outside tires. With weight comes traction. That traction spike flips the car over. Doing anything that reduces droop, constricts suspension movement, or otherwise quickens tire loading is counterproductive.
Some of the more important things I did to cure my traction roll (and win) on carpet with rubber tires:
-lay the shocks down
-reduce camber
-reduce roll stiffness (springs and swaybars)
-adjust dampening to delay maximum loading (in my case, I had to increase front dampening to get through the sweeper without traction rolling, used a ton of rebound to improve transitional response)
-lower roll centers
-reduce caster (Paulie's trick)
-add droop to all four corners (thanks Fairtrace)
All of this info looks to be exactly the way I would attack a traction roll problem.
Never..........ever go to a stiffer front spring to stop a traction roll.
12-15-2009, 01:15 PM
#33
I'm running rubber touring, and we only race on spec tyres with oderless sticky juice, mostly jack the gripper, LRP or CS high grip.
Soften the springs and oil, laying down the dampers, lowering roll center, first on the camber links, then on the suspensions arms, but my favorit is gluing the sidewalls!
Keep on racing
12-15-2009, 01:55 PM
#35
This could be applied to any car, but im talking about 1/10 TC. What are
some steps you guys take once you discover your car doesn't wanna stay glue'd to the track when the grip comes up fast? Lets say for example
your forced to stay with 1 set of tires, what type of setup changes do you make?
some steps you guys take once you discover your car doesn't wanna stay glue'd to the track when the grip comes up fast? Lets say for example
your forced to stay with 1 set of tires, what type of setup changes do you make?
If I'm in a race when the car starts lifting the inside tires or actually traction rolling, I let off the throttle a bit early and add some throttle power through the corner.
12-15-2009, 05:11 PM
#36
tuning tips for T.R.
I noticed nobody mentioned making sure the balance of the car is correct.
This is probably one of the no brainer ways to help eliminate traction roll.
Especially if you are running Lipo batteries the balance can be way off and this will cause the car to tip over very easily. How about adding weight to one side or the other depending on if it's rolling over in one direction,i.e. if the car TR's to the right add weight on the left side if it TR's to the left add weight to the right side. Seems logical?
If it traction rolls in both directions add weight at certain points of the lower deck and this might help keep the car from rolling over!
Just my 2$
This is probably one of the no brainer ways to help eliminate traction roll.
Especially if you are running Lipo batteries the balance can be way off and this will cause the car to tip over very easily. How about adding weight to one side or the other depending on if it's rolling over in one direction,i.e. if the car TR's to the right add weight on the left side if it TR's to the left add weight to the right side. Seems logical?
If it traction rolls in both directions add weight at certain points of the lower deck and this might help keep the car from rolling over!Just my 2$
12-15-2009, 07:27 PM
#39
01-10-2010, 10:51 AM
#41
got directed to this link, figure I post my issue here and see what is recommended.
I am running VTA class, using a shaft drive style car (Academy STR4 Pro II).
As the track owners are getting ready for snowbirds I believe, we ran the track in the reverse direction and I noticed then more traction rolling and the rear end being loose. So I am thinking of course don't have my weight balanced on the vehicle.
Anyway, basically when coming around the large sweeper the vehicle if I let off the throttle at all during the turn it would whip around the rear end then traction roll.
Initially I was thinking of stiffening up the front end as I have a lot of steering now for the rest of the track, and I also get chattering in the rear during turns as the car goes around turns.
As a side note, I am running swaybars too.
I can post my setup if that helps, just really need to get rid of the traction rolling
I am running VTA class, using a shaft drive style car (Academy STR4 Pro II).
As the track owners are getting ready for snowbirds I believe, we ran the track in the reverse direction and I noticed then more traction rolling and the rear end being loose. So I am thinking of course don't have my weight balanced on the vehicle.
Anyway, basically when coming around the large sweeper the vehicle if I let off the throttle at all during the turn it would whip around the rear end then traction roll.
Initially I was thinking of stiffening up the front end as I have a lot of steering now for the rest of the track, and I also get chattering in the rear during turns as the car goes around turns.
As a side note, I am running swaybars too.
I can post my setup if that helps, just really need to get rid of the traction rolling
01-10-2010, 10:57 AM
#42
got directed to this link, figure I post my issue here and see what is recommended.
I am running VTA class, using a shaft drive style car (Academy STR4 Pro II).
As the track owners are getting ready for snowbirds I believe, we ran the track in the reverse direction and I noticed then more traction rolling and the rear end being loose. So I am thinking of course don't have my weight balanced on the vehicle.
Anyway, basically when coming around the large sweeper the vehicle if I let off the throttle at all during the turn it would whip around the rear end then traction roll.
Initially I was thinking of stiffening up the front end as I have a lot of steering now for the rest of the track, and I also get chattering in the rear during turns as the car goes around turns.
As a side note, I am running swaybars too.
I can post my setup if that helps, just really need to get rid of the traction rolling
I am running VTA class, using a shaft drive style car (Academy STR4 Pro II).
As the track owners are getting ready for snowbirds I believe, we ran the track in the reverse direction and I noticed then more traction rolling and the rear end being loose. So I am thinking of course don't have my weight balanced on the vehicle.
Anyway, basically when coming around the large sweeper the vehicle if I let off the throttle at all during the turn it would whip around the rear end then traction roll.
Initially I was thinking of stiffening up the front end as I have a lot of steering now for the rest of the track, and I also get chattering in the rear during turns as the car goes around turns.
As a side note, I am running swaybars too.
I can post my setup if that helps, just really need to get rid of the traction rolling
01-10-2010, 10:58 AM
#43
Crap, I forgot to mention I added droop also !
01-10-2010, 12:04 PM
#45
Get the beefiest sway bar on the market. rolling takes having one side off the ground, sway bars eliminate that.
