I'm using both orion and peak stock motors, darn good motors, very good mid range torque. There's no need to drop 4-5 teeth on the pinion to gain any kind of torque like Epic's current crop. I personally like to use 4499's cut down with the stock green/red combo. They are pretty close in performance to MVP's and can be tuned in exactly the same ways. Go to www.rccars.com
to get tuning tips from Big Jim.