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Old 02-13-2010, 05:54 PM   #646
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Hi Guys,

Well, this is my first post in this thread, I'm pretty sure it won't be the last either....

Anyway, recently picked up a MMP for my TC (now the HH-UK have got em in stock), and borrowed one for the 12th (not a 1s though).

Today was my first day properly running and experimenting with the speedo. Now over here in the UK, 12th is pretty much still (certainly in the Stock/10.5 class), whilst pro-stock in TC is also 10.5.

I had run a MMP in the 12th before, however was pretty convinced that the rev range being used was set too low, as at the low rev range it was very soft. Started the day out with 40deg timing, and steadly upped the rev range to around 5000-7500, where there was much better feel. Then I added in more timing to max...and there was much better top end. I was paying attention to the motor temp the whole time, and noticed that even after 8mins it was only coming off at around 55degC (an SP v2 10.5), then thought sod it, and geared up 4teeth on the pinon
Well... thats was proper rapid! I do think I can tweak the timing ramp higher, as it was still a bit numb down low (my thought is the timing ramp is engaing too early reducing torque), so I'll play with that at the national next weekend, but so far very impressed.

Now in the TC (again 10.5t), I was a bit nervous to start with as I really had no prior idea of where to start with the speedo. So I was a bit conservative to start with, with just 30deg of timing, at 6000rpm-10,000, geared at ~6fdr. Suffice to say pretty much the same as the 12th.. in that I ended up with max timing, and the ramp a little lower at 5,8k. Did drop a pinion, as it had fully wound out by the end of the straight, and getting a little hot... but it certainly seemed comparable to other fast speedos (GM, SXX Stock, Tekin)... although behind the sticks it was deceptive as the power delivery was SOOOOO smooth Proper liked that, and the brakes were spot on too... I did purposefully keep the ramps as wide as I could, as I wanted it too be a smooth transition as possible, havnig had experince with other speedos driving a timing dump!

I did try the start ramp at 3,800 at one point... and all I can say is it felt horrible... so from today, I would say you'd want to be looking at a minimum ramp of around 4.2-4.5k

Overall very impressed with the speedo in both classes. I now just to make a decision on the motors for the new year, and it should get even quicker

12th - 4cell/10.5t
Motor - SP v2 10.5t
Cheat Mode - Enabled
Timing - 50deg
Ramp - Custom (5,000rpm - 7,500rpm) *I think this might need to go higher still on the start*
Dead band - Very Small (0.025ms)
Throttle Power - High
Drag Brake - 5%
Gearing - 53mmpr

TC - LiPo/10.5t
Motor - SP v2 10.5t
Cheat Mode - Enabled
Timing - 50deg
Ramp - Custom (5,800rpm - 9,500rpm)
Dead band - Very Small (0.025ms)
Throttle Power - High
Drag Brake - 5%
Gearing - 6.35FDR
Tyre - Sorex 28 JB Blue

HiH
Ed
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Last edited by TryHard; 02-13-2010 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:35 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by bkspeedo View Post
CHEAT mode
50deg timing
FDR 4 to 5 try several in this range
13000 - 20kish rpm range,
thanks
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:05 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Is the 1s MMP coming with the ticket for a free Castle Link like the 2s has been?

Has anybody used the new hand-held programmer Castle is offering?

Thanks!

Scottrik
Yes, my 1S version came with the coupon. You can use the coupon to get a Castle Link for free OR the new Field Link for $10. I'm waiting for Castle to send out my Field Link right now. Look forward to trying it out.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:37 AM   #649
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This past weekend I tried a new setup and I was very happy with the mmp. Before this I was planning on purchasing a Tekin but now I'm going to hold off.

Ballistic 17.5
XRay T3 - fdr 5.43
Timing 40 degrees (was running 50 but my skill level couldn't handle it)
CHEAT 10,000 - 12,000 (or very close to it, it's one of the presets I just can't remember exactly)
Motor Temp - 140's to 150's with no fan

At first I was running it at 50 degrees timing but I couldn't hold full throttle around the sweeper so I backed it down to 40 degrees. Once I did that it was much easier for me to drive.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:42 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Hi Guys,

Well, this is my first post in this thread, I'm pretty sure it won't be the last either....

Anyway, recently picked up a MMP for my TC (now the HH-UK have got em in stock), and borrowed one for the 12th (not a 1s though).

Today was my first day properly running and experimenting with the speedo. Now over here in the UK, 12th is pretty much still (certainly in the Stock/10.5 class), whilst pro-stock in TC is also 10.5.

I had run a MMP in the 12th before, however was pretty convinced that the rev range being used was set too low, as at the low rev range it was very soft. Started the day out with 40deg timing, and steadly upped the rev range to around 5000-7500, where there was much better feel. Then I added in more timing to max...and there was much better top end. I was paying attention to the motor temp the whole time, and noticed that even after 8mins it was only coming off at around 55degC (an SP v2 10.5), then thought sod it, and geared up 4teeth on the pinon
Well... thats was proper rapid! I do think I can tweak the timing ramp higher, as it was still a bit numb down low (my thought is the timing ramp is engaing too early reducing torque), so I'll play with that at the national next weekend, but so far very impressed.

Now in the TC (again 10.5t), I was a bit nervous to start with as I really had no prior idea of where to start with the speedo. So I was a bit conservative to start with, with just 30deg of timing, at 6000rpm-10,000, geared at ~6fdr. Suffice to say pretty much the same as the 12th.. in that I ended up with max timing, and the ramp a little lower at 5,8k. Did drop a pinion, as it had fully wound out by the end of the straight, and getting a little hot... but it certainly seemed comparable to other fast speedos (GM, SXX Stock, Tekin)... although behind the sticks it was deceptive as the power delivery was SOOOOO smooth Proper liked that, and the brakes were spot on too... I did purposefully keep the ramps as wide as I could, as I wanted it too be a smooth transition as possible, havnig had experince with other speedos driving a timing dump!

I did try the start ramp at 3,800 at one point... and all I can say is it felt horrible... so from today, I would say you'd want to be looking at a minimum ramp of around 4.2-4.5k

Overall very impressed with the speedo in both classes. I now just to make a decision on the motors for the new year, and it should get even quicker

12th - 4cell/10.5t
Motor - SP v2 10.5t
Cheat Mode - Enabled
Timing - 50deg
Ramp - Custom (5,000rpm - 7,500rpm) *I think this might need to go higher still on the start*
Dead band - Very Small (0.025ms)
Throttle Power - High
Drag Brake - 5%
Gearing - 53mmpr

TC - LiPo/10.5t
Motor - SP v2 10.5t
Cheat Mode - Enabled
Timing - 50deg
Ramp - Custom (5,800rpm - 9,500rpm)
Dead band - Very Small (0.025ms)
Throttle Power - High
Drag Brake - 5%
Gearing - 6.35FDR
Tyre - Sorex 28 JB Blue

HiH
Ed
Hi Ed,

It's important to remember that CHEAT timing will actually REDUCE torque at very low RPM -- that's why we give the ranges. This gives the racer the opportunity to tune his system for maximum torque throughout the performance envelope.

Patrick
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:01 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by pdelcast View Post
Hi Ed,

It's important to remember that CHEAT timing will actually REDUCE torque at very low RPM -- that's why we give the ranges. This gives the racer the opportunity to tune his system for maximum torque throughout the performance envelope.

Patrick
So is it better to do the cheat timing over a longer rpm range or is the short range just as effective
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:06 PM   #652
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also ran my mmp for the first time this weekend man this esc rocks castle did great job
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:06 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by black_knight View Post
So is it better to do the cheat timing over a longer rpm range or is the short range just as effective
Depends on the motor, really. Longer timing ranges are better for low-turn motors, shorter ranges for high-turn motors.

Thanx!
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:32 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by pdelcast View Post
Depends on the motor, really. Longer timing ranges are better for low-turn motors, shorter ranges for high-turn motors.

Thanx!
I can see where your going with this... And sorry in advance... this is gonna get complicated!

As part of wanting to understand how the ranges are working, I've drawn up a spreadsheet that basically allows the calculation of car speed for a given RPM (taking into account rollout). By estimating a certain minimum speed for a track, I can then (at least, this is the plan...) set the timing range to suit.

The main way i'm working with this at the moment is finding the minimum speed the car is doing to set the CHEAT start rpm, and then maintaing a set speed increase to set the end RPM... at least thats the intention!

Now while drawing the sheet up, given that some of the guys over here are running mod, and wanting to have a play, I put in figures to represent the FDR's etc that they would be close to running...
Interestingly enough, to maintain the same start speed and the same speed increase as what I was running with a 10.5, the start RPM needs to go up, and the split between the start and finish RPM needed to almost double... so obviously this would work the other way for higher wind motors (lower start rpm, shorter split).

Anyway, for those who are interested... the excel sheet is attached and my point borne out in that if you look at the speed estimate page, as the rollout goes up (e.g. higher wind motors), the rpm needed to maintain the same speed goes down...

My gut feeling (and Patrick will probably prove me wrong here ), is that for best performance with the dynamic timing, we need to be looking at the speed ranges the cars are doing on track, and then relate this back to the motor rpm to set the CHEAT ranges effectively, to be able to better take into account different classes, tyres etc
Obviously, the ranges are always going to be track dependent, as a flowing track is gonna have a higher average speed than a tight and twisty... so will require higher rpm. But at the very least, should be good to get decent starting setups.

Anyway... for my next trick () rather than estimating the speed / RPM's, i've mounted up an Eagle Tree telemetry system in the TC to monitor what is the useable ranges on track... won't be running whilst racing mind, but I've got a fulls days pratise planned in a few weeks

Cheers
Ed
Attached Files
File Type: zip Speed Chart.zip (9.8 KB, 151 views)
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:12 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
I can see where your going with this... And sorry in advance... this is gonna get complicated!

As part of wanting to understand how the ranges are working, I've drawn up a spreadsheet that basically allows the calculation of car speed for a given RPM (taking into account rollout). By estimating a certain minimum speed for a track, I can then (at least, this is the plan...) set the timing range to suit.

The main way i'm working with this at the moment is finding the minimum speed the car is doing to set the CHEAT start rpm, and then maintaing a set speed increase to set the end RPM... at least thats the intention!

Now while drawing the sheet up, given that some of the guys over here are running mod, and wanting to have a play, I put in figures to represent the FDR's etc that they would be close to running...
Interestingly enough, to maintain the same start speed and the same speed increase as what I was running with a 10.5, the start RPM needs to go up, and the split between the start and finish RPM needed to almost double... so obviously this would work the other way for higher wind motors (lower start rpm, shorter split).

Anyway, for those who are interested... the excel sheet is attached and my point borne out in that if you look at the speed estimate page, as the rollout goes up (e.g. higher wind motors), the rpm needed to maintain the same speed goes down...

My gut feeling (and Patrick will probably prove me wrong here ), is that for best performance with the dynamic timing, we need to be looking at the speed ranges the cars are doing on track, and then relate this back to the motor rpm to set the CHEAT ranges effectively, to be able to better take into account different classes, tyres etc
Obviously, the ranges are always going to be track dependent, as a flowing track is gonna have a higher average speed than a tight and twisty... so will require higher rpm. But at the very least, should be good to get decent starting setups.

Anyway... for my next trick () rather than estimating the speed / RPM's, i've mounted up an Eagle Tree telemetry system in the TC to monitor what is the useable ranges on track... won't be running whilst racing mind, but I've got a fulls days pratise planned in a few weeks

Cheers
Ed

Just had a quick look at the excel sheet and i punched in the Tekin 10.5 profile that i am useing and it just didn't match up with what was on the track but then again it is for a different speedy (i do enjoy my mamba max)
but in saying that i will keep the excel sheet , it will come in handy i am sure.
I cannot believe how cheap the MMP is $124us man thats CHEAP.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:51 PM   #656
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What are you talking about?

You can already do much more with the MMP than any LRP controller out there. The only ESC that is on par with the MMP right now is the Tekin. Castle and Tekin are both WAY ahead of the curve vrs. LRP.

That said, with the MMP, you do need to do some experimentation to get a setup that works well with a given motor -- so that you don't overheat it.

LRP isn't doing anything that you can't match and beat with CHEAT timing. Tekin has a slight advantage right now on short tracks because their timing curve is different than the Mamba Pro, but we are working on that.

Also, when the new timing curves are available, you will be able to download the new software on the MMP. You won't have to buy a whole new ESC every time we make an improvement (unlike OTHER manufacturers...)

Patrick
@pdelcast

Any information on when the new firmware will be available to be equal to the Tekins ?
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:22 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by Casino Kid View Post
Just had a quick look at the excel sheet and i punched in the Tekin 10.5 profile that i am useing and it just didn't match up with what was on the track but then again it is for a different speedy (i do enjoy my mamba max)
but in saying that i will keep the excel sheet , it will come in handy i am sure.
I cannot believe how cheap the MMP is $124us man thats CHEAP.
When you say it doesn't match up with the track... Are you saying your speed is different etc? If so, and no offence, but how accurate is your reading of the car speed?

Now one caveat for that spreedsheet is that its using real motor rpm... And depending on how accurate the speedo reads it will have an effect vs the track. I know over here in the uk, the from guys running GM speedos, that the Genius120 rpm reading is broke, and massively over-reads the rpm the motor see's.

HiH
Ed
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:18 AM   #658
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Originally Posted by Casino Kid View Post
Just had a quick look at the excel sheet and i punched in the Tekin 10.5 profile that i am useing and it just didn't match up with what was on the track but then again it is for a different speedy (i do enjoy my mamba max)
but in saying that i will keep the excel sheet , it will come in handy i am sure.
I cannot believe how cheap the MMP is $124us man thats CHEAP.
Hmm, I've had another look at the chart, and rechecked the calculations etc... And I'm pretty darn sure they are correct. Also cross referenced it with the numbers from Mark Browns TekinRS v203 guide, and they match up.
Don't forget that you need to put in four values... Spur, pinion, internal ratio and tyre diameter in mm.

HiH
Ed
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:58 AM   #659
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Hmm, I've had another look at the chart, and rechecked the calculations etc... And I'm pretty darn sure they are correct. Also cross referenced it with the numbers from Mark Browns TekinRS v203 guide, and they match up.
Don't forget that you need to put in four values... Spur, pinion, internal ratio and tyre diameter in mm.

HiH
Ed
is the calculations just for a 10.5 or will it work with other motor such a 17.5 and 13.5? If not what values need to be changed?
thanks
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:52 AM   #660
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is the calculations just for a 10.5 or will it work with other motor such a 17.5 and 13.5? If not what values need to be changed?
thanks
It'll work with any motor, as basically that's not a requirement for the calculation. The main point is to put in your gearing (which is generally a range for a motor type) and tyre size, and it'll churn out the speed.

It basically works that a 17.5 will run a much lower FDR than a 10.5, so that kinda takes account the motor differences

HiH
Ed
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