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Old 12-03-2009, 12:47 PM   #151
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Can you define what you mean by "way over"?

Were the tie-rods angled too far back or too far forward?

I race oval and RCGT and i'm trying to make sure i don't have something way wrong, the too many spacers example you provided, on my cars. The rods on my oval car are square to the centerline of the chassis. The rods on my Pro4 are angled to the rear slightly.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:11 PM   #152
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Boomer-Thanks for the post. I think we agree except that I think carpet and asphalt might require different optimum Ackerman settings.
You actually might need to tinker with it. I never have needed to on asphalt, though.

All the pan cars only require steering links to be perpendicular to the chassis for proper Ackerman. You can reduce it by moving the servo forward or back. Angling the steering links should kill Ackerman and some steering traction. Spacers and height adjustments on the ends of the steering link affect bump steer. I noticed at the oval carpet nats that the drivers were using considerable angle from a report I received. One of our oval guys went and finished high in the B-main.

Bump Steer.
As the wheel goes up in bump it is desireable for the steering angle to stay the same. An easy test is to pull off the front wheel. Push the steering block or kingpin up through its travel range. Note if the axle changes direction. I like to look from the top of the car. If it points out with bump you have bump steer out. A little is OK and makes the steering forgiving when going through the bumps. If it points in with bump you have bump steer in. You remove bump steer by adding spacers under the steering link. Just use trial and error. Normally I end up putting spacers under the outer pivot ball stud. On a pan car, I usually end up with a little bump steer out.
On My Losi I have 0 bump steer with no spacers under the ball studs inner or outer on the steering link.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:35 PM   #153
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Hi John,
I finally got around to researching it and there is 3 different materials used for the f/r hubs. The ea3 was used on the jrxs, but to the best of my knowledge are the same hubs dimensionally as the graphite xxxs. I found the graphite too brittle, maybe the ea3 will split the difference? The arms dont appear to be made in the ea3.
1224 original
9747 graphite
9762 ea3
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:54 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pejota View Post
Can you define what you mean by "way over"?

Were the tie-rods angled too far back or too far forward?

I race oval and RCGT and i'm trying to make sure i don't have something way wrong, the too many spacers example you provided, on my cars. The rods on my oval car are square to the centerline of the chassis. The rods on my Pro4 are angled to the rear slightly.
Ackerman isn't whether the steering rods are back or forward, but it's about lengths. I don't remember how many spacers or whatever, I just remember finally looking at the steering assembly, measuring toe at straight (about -1), then at various points and compared to mine (which was stock) and he had a TON more Ackerman. I returned him to stock and he was good again.

John - me not know carpet!
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:58 PM   #155
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Default Ackerman

I run VTA carpet and run in the forward standard position. I've tried the rear position but it seemed too twitchy for me.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:43 PM   #156
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Scott-thanks. I looked that material over as well. Not sure what my hubs are, but they have the extra hole.

C&B RC -Well that is just opposite of my findings. I imagine you reset toe in as the car goes slightly toe out when you move the links back. This toe out creates some twitchiness by itself.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:19 AM   #157
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Yes, I reset toe. I typically run very little toe-out. I eyeball the angle, measuring the links to keep it symetrical. You've sparked my curiousity and I plan on looking at it again.
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:48 PM   #158
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Bump this back up so Can be found easier

this is the thread, small = breakable
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:28 PM   #159
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Default I went throught and read the posts from the begining...

and I've never seen such positive remarks about the XXX-S design. I can't believe that Losi has just given up on it's potential. It's only neg remark was how heavy it was, but more people raved about how simple it was to work on and smooth it was to drive. WTF is wrong with Losi for abandoning it when there are no other enclosed belted cars on the market? Thousands of them sold and no support now. I can't even find one on ebay for less than $150 that's in good condition. It's spiked in demand and I can't even get my hands on cheap parts. LOSI shame on you!!!! I don't think I can buy a Losi again when they just refuse to listen to it's customers and worse fail to see a market potential. They keep tring to push the JRX-R down consumers throats and it's not working.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:41 PM   #160
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and I've never seen such positive remarks about the XXX-S design. I can't believe that Losi has just given up on it's potential. It's only neg remark was how heavy it was, but more people raved about how simple it was to work on and smooth it was to drive. WTF is wrong with Losi for abandoning it when there are no other enclosed belted cars on the market? Thousands of them sold and no support now. I can't even find one on ebay for less than $150 that's in good condition. It's spiked in demand and I can't even get my hands on cheap parts. LOSI shame on you!!!! I don't think I can buy a Losi again when they just refuse to listen to it's customers and worse fail to see a market potential. They keep tring to push the JRX-R down consumers throats and it's not working.

I just realised they discontinued XXX-S RTR/drift! wow never knew that.

bastard! you killed Kenny!

I guess end is near for for da XXXS sega, incdl parts.

for da JRXSR I wonder if you ever own this car, as big fan of da JRXSR I can say proudly da car is working, very well that is.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:45 PM   #161
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I just realised they discontinued XXX-S RTR/drift! wow never knew that.

I guess end is near for for da XXXS sega, incdl parts.

for da JRXSR I wonder if you ever own this car, as big fan of da JRXSR I can say proudly da car is working, very well that is.
I have and loved the Type R but I cant part with my XXX-s. :P To many good things about it and history with it.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:55 PM   #162
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I have and loved the Type R but I cant part with my XXX-s. :P To many good things about it and history with it.
yes I m keeping my xxx-s forever with a brand new kinwald look milled chassis and his trade marked body! but for performance racing Type-R is it.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:11 PM   #163
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I just realised they discontinued XXX-S RTR/drift! wow never knew that.

I guess end is near for for da XXXS sega, incdl parts.

for da JRXSR I wonder if you ever own this car, as big fan of da JRXSR I can say proudly da car is working, very well that is.
arguing that fact, but it's not popular, and that's a fact. The over all kits Losi sold are very low. It's design advantages are not that apparent. Many complain about seeing much differences in chassis tuning. Several die hard Losi fans I know were not impressed. There are issues with the car as well, one huge one being the car is fragile. It's not a good choice for new to average racers. Yeah the design may allow you to push the car, but at the cost of breaking. The chassis is wide and difficult to mount electronics despite it's "easy to balance" argument. No the car really has no huge improvements to bring over established designs. What advantages a two plate XXX-S design could have would be it's flex options and it's light weight advantage. Tweak is part of every plate car. I figure a XXX-S two plate design could be as many put a very good Mod car and much lighter for stock racing. The car would need to be build around a reputation of strong and easy to drive work on for the real racer. That being the weekly club guy with options parts for the serious Pro guy. lol HPI did a good job of offering bearing reducers for the small hub bearings for the Pro racers.

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Old 12-08-2009, 07:01 PM   #164
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The XXX-S RTR is still available at Stormer. There is a small market for the elctronics that it contains. I had pretty good luck and went that route. I have not had much trouble getting spares yet. I have plenty.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:02 PM   #165
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I don't want to turn John S thread in to a type-R debating one but.... I have to deffence my second child (1st child is da XXX-S )

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arguing that fact, but it's not popular, and that's a fact. The over all kits Losi sold are very low.

cause Losi wasted time on JRXS pro (front moto) and this car came out in wrong time...end of TC/beginning of 1/8th offroad, Losi stop prommoting this car and went all in with da 8ight. popularity have nothing to do with thecar's performance, I remeber TC3 being most popular in 2002 season but to me da XXX-S was it.


It's design advantages are not that apparent.

please read on I will tell you what is most biggest advantage da type-r have.

Many complain about seeing much differences in chassis tuning.

I don't think so....but let s go on..

Several die hard Losi fans I know were not impressed.

they should spent little more time on it...too bad

There are issues with the car as well, one huge one being the car is fragile.

only thing that make this car fragile is cause of weak, cheap bumper car come's with once I switched to Parma bumper I only broke once with in a full season(modified class)


It's not a good choice for new to average racers.

cause they are afraid to be diffrent, they want to follow someoone's direction cause of inconfidence, they need big names lead and help and you right Losi don't offer that nomore.

Yeah the design may allow you to push the car, but at the cost of breaking. The chassis is wide and difficult to mount electronics

chassis is not wide, just perfect width ...to prove that look at the bottom of any type-R s chassis. barely any scratch on the side. no scrubbing no drag, faster cornering speed, I know they could compromised little by offer little more room for a ESC but you can always mount them side way if you worry bout getting a T-bone. that s what I do on my car, I don't think ESC or any gear need to be mounted flat all the time. (da car already have enough Low CG )


despite it's "easy to balance" argument. No the car really has no huge improvements to bring over established designs.

that s showing you never own one yet, type-R don't need or change anything cause a lighter battery or battery getting heavier, Lipo or LiFe , 5cell etc...1 or 2 lead weight and you have perfect left to right balance all the time! if that's not a huge enough than ask a Tamiya or a Xray designer why thay came out with totaley new blanced car this year.


What advantages a two plate XXX-S design could have would be it's flex options and it's light weight advantage. Tweak is part of every plate car. I figure a XXX-S two plate design could be as many put a very good Mod car and much lighter for stock racing. The car would need to be build around a reputation of strong and easy to drive work on for the real racer.

for last I will tell you what hugh advantage type-R have over conventional design cars.

many said battery in middle of cos that too but to me Biggest Gyro effect device is on dead even center of the chassis on right front of rear wheels.

think about it.

I love XXX-S ppl around me was shocked when I TQed with da XXX-S in full of all this modern chassis 17.5 TC class at my local parking lot track this summer but for Prepped track or the carpet track Type-R can drive around XXX-S anytime or can drive around any of this heavily advertised bling bling TCs.


lots of ppl gave a funny look on da XXX-S when it debut and type-R been treated same but diffrence is XXX-S have parents in that time but type-R is like an abondon child

I remember when I went to pick up a TC to race on 2001 -2002 at my local hobby shop, as soon as I told him I wanted to try a TC race he brought a TC3 kit without even asking ....with big smile. he said "this is s DA car to race John!" also said that s what EVERYBODY drive....

well I had to exit empty handed after 1/2 hour conversation with him (good buddy of mine too) cause he don't have aXXX-S and refused to carry any of the parts either!! I drove 45minute to other town to pick one up. that s the car I still have and race this summer.
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