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Old 06-07-2012, 11:11 AM   #856
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We found that a tc shock works much better in 2s lipo application then the 1/12th shock that comes with the WGT cars.
What kind of TC shock would you recommend?
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:47 AM   #857
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Any good TC shock will do.
Like the TRF or the TC5 shocks.

regards Roy

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What kind of TC shock would you recommend?
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:54 PM   #858
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Just to be sure (as you write inside of the damper) It is not inside the shock but on the piston that is on the outside of the shock.

See the small piece of nitro fuel line on the centershock, just under the ballcup.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking too..
thanks!
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:18 AM   #859
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I, once again, feel compelled to mention just how beautiful I find this car to be.....

So reminiscent of the early, and far too short, limelight for 235mm pan car.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:12 AM   #860
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OK, so we had a small race yesterday.. 5 minutes long and I almost ran down a set of fronts!

The fronts worn down in a strange way..
I have attached a picture of how the front end looks..

the left hand tire is half worn and the right tire is well worn into a cone towards the chassie!?
It is almost as if the chassie has been riding with the front right of the ground!?

Ok, track is run clockwise, body is prtoform P908, chassi 235 wide X10

what can I do to get the tires to last/wear down in a better way?
Both front tires were of equal size before the 5 minute race started
Attached Thumbnails
Pro 10: 235mm Le Mans Prototype Pan Car Discussion-smaller_x10_front.jpg  
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:34 AM   #861
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Ajusted your camber to wear the tyre flat, and try to use harder compound.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:39 AM   #862
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I, once again, feel compelled to mention just how beautiful I find this car to be.....

So reminiscent of the early, and far too short, limelight for 235mm pan car.

235 mm pro10 pancar is NOT DEAD here is Europe. Instead of that we are more and more people with 200 mm WGT cars extended to 235 mm. In my group only 2 have to car in 200 mm, the rest of us have 235 mm.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:51 AM   #863
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Somo photos of our cars at last race:



By rokosam at 2012-06-08



By rokosam at 2012-06-08




By rokosam at 2012-06-08
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:18 AM   #864
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
I, once again, feel compelled to mention just how beautiful I find this car to be.....

So reminiscent of the early, and far too short, limelight for 235mm pan car.
Thank you very much. That is exactly why after all this years i still drive this class. It looks impressive sitting still on a pittable and it looks awesome on the track.

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OK, so we had a small race yesterday.. 5 minutes long and I almost ran down a set of fronts!

The fronts worn down in a strange way..
I have attached a picture of how the front end looks..

the left hand tire is half worn and the right tire is well worn into a cone towards the chassie!?
It is almost as if the chassie has been riding with the front right of the ground!?

Ok, track is run clockwise, body is prtoform P908, chassi 235 wide X10

what can I do to get the tires to last/wear down in a better way?
Both front tires were of equal size before the 5 minute race started
You have too much camber on the right front tire (left tire in the picture)

What tires and other setup is on the car cause with heavy scrubbing of front tires there is something wrong in your setup.

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235 mm pro10 pancar is NOT DEAD here is Europe. Instead of that we are more and more people with 200 mm WGT cars extended to 235 mm. In my group only 2 have to car in 200 mm, the rest of us have 235 mm.
Don't underestimate the 200mm pancars. Some corners they are a little less stable but on the straight they are quicker then a 235mm with gtp body. At least that is what we see in the stock 10.5t class on my track (speeds over 60m/h on the straight). There is a 200mm car that uses a 200mm MIX porsche body and it is the quickest on the straight and has no problems to keep up in most corners.

I am sure it is track dependend but on our track (also on other tracks) it doesn't seem to make much of a difference in laptimes. For what i see here I think it is cool that there are propperties of a 200 and 235mm that are a little different but that in the end it seems to ballance each other out on the track. (What i see overhere)

This way we don't get people whining that they can't keep up cause some have a wider car then they have. If they do whine we can say they need to improve their driving or setup skills as it is proven it doesn't make a difference. It is not the car....it is the driver.

Last edited by 2wdrive; 06-08-2012 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:24 AM   #865
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I donīt underestimate them but at my local tracks 235 works better, at another one smaller and curvy 200 mm always win, so it depends on the driver skills factor obviously but also the track. We also noticed 10.5 +turbo can be better than modified motors.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:18 AM   #866
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post

You have too much camber on the right front tire (left tire in the picture)

What tires and other setup is on the car cause with heavy scrubbing of front tires there is something wrong in your setup.
tires are pink in the rear grp front purple GRP

front end setup:
camber well a little to much on right hand side , left was set so that the wheel did not cone, done when car was 200mm wide.
reactive caster as per manual default X10 (5 degrees)
Static Caster set per manual. (gives a total of 5,5degree caster)
ride height shims 3 instead of 6 ...
shims on kingpin 1,5mm above knuckle
i guess ride height is at 5mm
toeout is close to zero, by the looks of it
front springs are kit supplied in the X10

rear:
ride height is higher than front, by a small amount.
when the car was raced last night I had higher rear (4mm higher) due to soft ceter damper spring.
I now have the axle in its highest position with 57 mm rear wheels(smallest possible height).
spring is by xray supplied silver.(soft)
droop a few mm

motor:
4T
ESC mamba max pro, at default settings for timing, no cheat mode
servo Spektrum H5000

A bit embarresed, I do not have the setup tool at hand...
By doing this recap of my setup I get that I need to put my car in the setup station and set things properly.

But thats OK I am here to learn, please advice on a good setup for an large outdoor flowing track, we got 1 tight corner the others are pretty open.

Thanks!
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:19 AM   #867
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By rokosam at 2012-06-08
Thanks for showing the pictures. I could be wrong but doesn't your friends car seem to have bump toe in with the tierods angled like that? Just curious why he has it like that.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:22 AM   #868
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Set normal ride heigt of roughly 6mm all around. Set camber so both tires wear flat. If it is possible, try to use a TC shock with 40-45wt oil and 12 or 14 lbs spring. Put a bump stop on the shock. See if the front suspension works freely without binding or too much slop, same with the back end. I presume the car is ballanced left and right. Also the middle damper for side to side movement goes against the top podplate and chassis brace when moving to the extreme. Xray made a mistake on that one. You need to shim the topplate and shock attachement on the chassiss brace so the damper doesn't hit the upper podplate or the brace. The backend needs a little droop but the pod should be more or less horizontal when race ready. It is a base setting you are looking for for now.

See what the car does on the track when you made the above adjustments and try to describe if it has a tendency to understeer, oversteer, what it does going in the corner and going out of the corner etc etc. Pink back tires and purple fronts together with a peugeot HD has a tendency to understeer at speed.

Look at your steering throw. If you need 70-80% or more steering throw to go through the corners then you are scrubbing too much front tires and speed. It is better to build in more steering and less steering throw.

A 4t motor will scrub foam nontheless but one set of fronts in one run seems a lot even with a 4t motor.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:59 AM   #869
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Thanks for showing the pictures. I could be wrong but doesn't your friends car seem to have bump toe in with the tierods angled like that? Just curious why he has it like that.

These are TyoBSS and sonīs CRC GenX10 cars, yes he has problems measuring camber and is looking for help at the CRC Calandraīs specific post. I also think this is a strange way of mounting the tierods.

Anyway he had the lap time record at the track that day!!!!
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:26 AM   #870
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
Set normal ride heigt of roughly 6mm all around. Set camber so both tires wear flat. If it is possible, try to use a TC shock with 40-45wt oil and 12 or 14 lbs spring. Put a bump stop on the shock. See if the front suspension works freely without binding or too much slop, same with the back end. I presume the car is ballanced left and right. Also the middle damper for side to side movement goes against the top podplate and chassis brace when moving to the extreme. Xray made a mistake on that one. You need to shim the topplate and shock attachement on the chassiss brace so the damper doesn't hit the upper podplate or the brace. The backend needs a little droop but the pod should be more or less horizontal when race ready. It is a base setting you are looking for for now.

See what the car does on the track when you made the above adjustments and try to describe if it has a tendency to understeer, oversteer, what it does going in the corner and going out of the corner etc etc. Pink back tires and purple fronts together with a peugeot HD has a tendency to understeer at speed.

Look at your steering throw. If you need 70-80% or more steering throw to go through the corners then you are scrubbing too much front tires and speed. It is better to build in more steering and less steering throw.

A 4t motor will scrub foam nontheless but one set of fronts in one run seems a lot even with a 4t motor.
Thanks!
I'll get busy, with a little luck i'll be able to test coming weekend.

For the side damper we have noticed that, a bad design by xray...Need to fix that, would you recommend switching to tubes?
/Johnny
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