1568LikesPro 10: 235mm Le Mans Prototype Pan Car Discussion
08-01-2014, 02:18 PM
#1606
Super Moderator
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
Posts: 15,482
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
This is entirely a matter of personal preference and driving style. For me, a servo can NEVER be too fast. I want the front wheels to do exactly what I tell them to do, just as if my hands are on the (imaginary) steering wheel in the car. It's the only way I can truly know exactly what the car is doing, so I can make appropriate adjustments. I prefer smooth steering to come from my fingers, not from any electronic limitation.
Maybe I should have said that servo speed combined with driver input (rapid/drastic) can be fast enough to cause a push...?
Oddly enough if you don't know this is actually what's happening it's possible people could be chasing a chassis/set up problem that isn't really there...?
08-01-2014, 03:14 PM
#1607
That's what I took away from Roy's(pro10noob) post about servo speed being to fast and causing a push... chasing a setup problem that isn't there. It was a good point too, one that I honestly hadn't thought about, thanks Roy
.Personally I will continue to buy the fastest servo I can afford and tune my driving and transmitter to track feel. Sometimes running on tight indoor carpet tracks requires that "super speed" servo to manage the car better in a chicane. Expo and Dual rate settings would be my substitute for a slower servo. Also gotta remember Roy is lucky to be running on those beautiful 1/8th scale nitro tracks of Europe, not a tight indoor carpet track.
Last edited by OrganicMechanic; 08-01-2014 at 03:16 PM. Reason: can't type
08-01-2014, 03:42 PM
#1608
You can't compare a big flowing asfalt track with a tight twisty carpet track.
The carpet track wins every time on the asfalt grip wise.
That is why you need the insane fast servo's.
If you don't use them then you lack steering on carpet.
Like i said before, setup is for the asfalt and if you go to the top speed servo's, then you get into trouble with a pushing car whatever setup you run.
Been there and done it.
Found out by trail and error
It will get you oversteer or huge tire wear.
Take a look at our German brothers who run the 4.5 motors with power program.
They use a lot of fronts tires also but they need to have the speed into the steering.
If not they don't get the corner without braking a lot and loose speed even if they run the nitro lola bodies.
If i am running indoor on carpet with my F1 200MM or my 1:12 i do use a fast servo.
If not, then i loose out on the corners.
If you guys ever come to europe and run on our circuits you will notice what i am talking about.
Regards Roy
The carpet track wins every time on the asfalt grip wise.
That is why you need the insane fast servo's.
If you don't use them then you lack steering on carpet.
Like i said before, setup is for the asfalt and if you go to the top speed servo's, then you get into trouble with a pushing car whatever setup you run.
Been there and done it
.Found out by trail and error
It will get you oversteer or huge tire wear.
Take a look at our German brothers who run the 4.5 motors with power program.
They use a lot of fronts tires also but they need to have the speed into the steering.
If not they don't get the corner without braking a lot and loose speed even if they run the nitro lola bodies.
If i am running indoor on carpet with my F1 200MM or my 1:12 i do use a fast servo.
If not, then i loose out on the corners.
If you guys ever come to europe and run on our circuits you will notice what i am talking about.
Regards Roy
08-01-2014, 05:15 PM
#1609
I have many decades of experience on large fast asphalt tracks with several scales, starting with 1/12 scale (when that was the only electric class that existed) and ending with 1/8 2WD. I still prefer the fastest servo I can get.
In 1/8 scale 2WD, it was imperative to drive smoothly to get to the end of a 45+ minute main with some front tires left; the cars we ran didn't have quick-change fronts.
It was even possible to trash a set of 1/12 tires in a couple of runs if I didn't drive smoothly. (This was with the limited selection of tire compounds way back when. When Delta released their Gold compound for 1/12 scale, it was heaven!)
Keep in mind that every car will push on the initial turn-in, since every car has a non-zero polar moment of inertia. There is no way to cure it, but there are ways to minimize it, and things that exacerbate it. Keeping the weight as centralized on the chassis should be a priority. Too much roll damping on the front suspension, or too little on the rear, adds to the push on turn-in. Conversely, using less roll damping on the front or more on the rear will mitigate the problem.
If I were to cover up the problem with a slower servo, then I would possibly overlook other ways to reduce it. All of these chassis adjustments can reduce lap times. A slower servo will not.
Certainly no one has to share my views; actually, I like hearing other viewpoints. But what is a problem for one guy might not be a problem for another, even on the same track, with the same car, under the same conditions.
In 1/8 scale 2WD, it was imperative to drive smoothly to get to the end of a 45+ minute main with some front tires left; the cars we ran didn't have quick-change fronts.
It was even possible to trash a set of 1/12 tires in a couple of runs if I didn't drive smoothly. (This was with the limited selection of tire compounds way back when. When Delta released their Gold compound for 1/12 scale, it was heaven!)
Keep in mind that every car will push on the initial turn-in, since every car has a non-zero polar moment of inertia. There is no way to cure it, but there are ways to minimize it, and things that exacerbate it. Keeping the weight as centralized on the chassis should be a priority. Too much roll damping on the front suspension, or too little on the rear, adds to the push on turn-in. Conversely, using less roll damping on the front or more on the rear will mitigate the problem.
If I were to cover up the problem with a slower servo, then I would possibly overlook other ways to reduce it. All of these chassis adjustments can reduce lap times. A slower servo will not.
Certainly no one has to share my views; actually, I like hearing other viewpoints. But what is a problem for one guy might not be a problem for another, even on the same track, with the same car, under the same conditions.
08-01-2014, 07:19 PM
#1610
A couple acres of land, some fresh asphalt and a sunny weekend. Now that's a dream I could live with. Throw in F1 for that matter as they are pan cars for all intents. I still feel that WGT needs to shift to GT2 bodies and go to a 21.5 or 17.5 2S format for outdoor. Some tires that fit the scale appearance better would be nice.
GT2 - 17.5/21.5 260 max wheelbase
USLPM realistic (270mm to 280mm wheelbase, LM-1 or stretched 200mm wide pancar/F1 car) - 13.5/17.5 , single bolt foam tires
LM-1 - not needed, rolled into USLMP
Pro10 Stock - 10.5 cap or higher turn
Pro10 Mod - no limit
F-1 Mod - Foam tires - no limit
F-1 realistic - 17.5/21.5 Rubber tires
GT2 - 17.5/21.5 260 max wheelbase
USLPM realistic (270mm to 280mm wheelbase, LM-1 or stretched 200mm wide pancar/F1 car) - 13.5/17.5 , single bolt foam tires
LM-1 - not needed, rolled into USLMP
Pro10 Stock - 10.5 cap or higher turn
Pro10 Mod - no limit
F-1 Mod - Foam tires - no limit
F-1 realistic - 17.5/21.5 Rubber tires
08-01-2014, 07:49 PM
#1611
You can't compare a big flowing asfalt track with a tight twisty carpet track.
The carpet track wins every time on the asfalt grip wise.
That is why you need the insane fast servo's.
If you don't use them then you lack steering on carpet.
Like i said before, setup is for the asfalt and if you go to the top speed servo's, then you get into trouble with a pushing car whatever setup you run.
Been there and done it.
Found out by trail and error
It will get you oversteer or huge tire wear.
Take a look at our German brothers who run the 4.5 motors with power program.
They use a lot of fronts tires also but they need to have the speed into the steering.
If not they don't get the corner without braking a lot and loose speed even if they run the nitro lola bodies.
If i am running indoor on carpet with my F1 200MM or my 1:12 i do use a fast servo.
If not, then i loose out on the corners.
If you guys ever come to europe and run on our circuits you will notice what i am talking about.
Regards Roy
The carpet track wins every time on the asfalt grip wise.
That is why you need the insane fast servo's.
If you don't use them then you lack steering on carpet.
Like i said before, setup is for the asfalt and if you go to the top speed servo's, then you get into trouble with a pushing car whatever setup you run.
Been there and done it
.Found out by trail and error
It will get you oversteer or huge tire wear.
Take a look at our German brothers who run the 4.5 motors with power program.
They use a lot of fronts tires also but they need to have the speed into the steering.
If not they don't get the corner without braking a lot and loose speed even if they run the nitro lola bodies.
If i am running indoor on carpet with my F1 200MM or my 1:12 i do use a fast servo.
If not, then i loose out on the corners.
If you guys ever come to europe and run on our circuits you will notice what i am talking about.
Regards Roy
. My solution for asphalt would be to slow the servo speed down via expo and dual rate, assuming my car has a push I can't shake with setup changes. This way I don't have to swap servos for different surfaces.
08-01-2014, 08:04 PM
#1612
A couple acres of land, some fresh asphalt and a sunny weekend. Now that's a dream I could live with. Throw in F1 for that matter as they are pan cars for all intents. I still feel that WGT needs to shift to GT2 bodies and go to a 21.5 or 17.5 2S format for outdoor. Some tires that fit the scale appearance better would be nice.
GT2 - 17.5/21.5 260 max wheelbase
USLPM realistic (270mm to 280mm wheelbase, LM-1 or stretched 200mm wide pancar/F1 car) - 13.5/17.5 , single bolt foam tires
LM-1 - not needed, rolled into USLMP
Pro10 Stock - 10.5 cap or higher turn
Pro10 Mod - no limit
F-1 Mod - Foam tires - no limit
F-1 realistic - 17.5/21.5 Rubber tires
GT2 - 17.5/21.5 260 max wheelbase
USLPM realistic (270mm to 280mm wheelbase, LM-1 or stretched 200mm wide pancar/F1 car) - 13.5/17.5 , single bolt foam tires
LM-1 - not needed, rolled into USLMP
Pro10 Stock - 10.5 cap or higher turn
Pro10 Mod - no limit
F-1 Mod - Foam tires - no limit
F-1 realistic - 17.5/21.5 Rubber tires
08-01-2014, 08:11 PM
#1613
In other news I picked up a NIP Trinity D3.5 10.5T(4900kv) for $60. That little monster will be right at home in my RC10L2. I also picked up a cheap laptop to tune the Hobbywing Xerun 120A ESC that I need to get bought. I tested the Hobbywing USB Link V3.42 software on my Justock ESC to make sure it worked with the laptop, it does. The tuning of the boost and turbo functions on the Xerun 120A are going to be a blast! : It's not turbo lag it's foreplay!
: It's not turbo lag it's foreplay!
08-01-2014, 08:41 PM
#1614
Tech Adept
In need of a t-bar
Looking for a T-Bar for 1/10 Delta Villian?
08-01-2014, 08:56 PM
#1615
Any luck on Ebay? Or maybe one of these can be fitted: http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=30
08-01-2014, 09:32 PM
#1617
08-01-2014, 09:43 PM
#1619
This is you right? http://www.petitrc.com/Tech/AE_RC10L...on/Aritcle.htm
If so thanks much!
If so thanks much!
