New touring cars to come soon ??
08-28-2009, 08:47 AM
#137
Tech Adept
We are not able to show any pics right now.....sorry. You know it is always super secret squirrel stuff until it is almost released.
As far as the Schumacher Mi4, we have had many of their products on in the past and would love to have the Mi4 on. We will give a call to Shawn or Adam and see what we can do.
As far as the Schumacher Mi4, we have had many of their products on in the past and would love to have the Mi4 on. We will give a call to Shawn or Adam and see what we can do.
can you tell us anything about the new losi and tidbits
please dont say shaft drive is making a comback because of lipos
08-28-2009, 12:48 PM
#138
4. Probably the biggest factor is that...you can't "play" with an onroad car. It's a track car. 85% of the market never goes to the track...even less buy onroad. So you'll never get a kid with a 416 playing in the street and then saying "I want to go race'. Back in the day parkinglot racing brought new people in, it was in front of people. Now we race in some random place in front of nobody. The influx of new people died.
Biggest classes at the track-Trans AM, RCGT, F1...
08-28-2009, 04:33 PM
#139
onroad
Dereckb,
Great post thanks for all your frank comments about what is driving the RC car market. Ive known this for years, as not only being a racer and working in a LHS. Some racers really don't understand nor do they want to understand why their segment is dying.
Who knows what will be popular next! When economy turns around it just may be something new.
From what I have seen locally, (Hot Rods, WCRW, and OCRC) the biggest interest has been in the 1/10 Electric SC trucks. People like the realistic looks, handling and how competitive you can make them. I have been out of the on road and oval for 2 years, picked up a Slash, one my main on my second off road race.
I got out of tc because of like you said cost, 1 run tires etc.
and tc all look alike. day glow rats speeding around with day glow window frames.
GT is a good way to help bring people back or new people to on road. there should be a spec class such as Slash spec. a low cost durabe car with realistic bodies. no day glow flames, windows etc. stock tires no disc. stock motors., Nah it wil never work!
Keep it up Derek I enjoy your coments.
Yours,
Wayne
Great post thanks for all your frank comments about what is driving the RC car market. Ive known this for years, as not only being a racer and working in a LHS. Some racers really don't understand nor do they want to understand why their segment is dying.
Who knows what will be popular next! When economy turns around it just may be something new.
From what I have seen locally, (Hot Rods, WCRW, and OCRC) the biggest interest has been in the 1/10 Electric SC trucks. People like the realistic looks, handling and how competitive you can make them. I have been out of the on road and oval for 2 years, picked up a Slash, one my main on my second off road race.
I got out of tc because of like you said cost, 1 run tires etc.
and tc all look alike. day glow rats speeding around with day glow window frames.
GT is a good way to help bring people back or new people to on road. there should be a spec class such as Slash spec. a low cost durabe car with realistic bodies. no day glow flames, windows etc. stock tires no disc. stock motors., Nah it wil never work!
Keep it up Derek I enjoy your coments.
Yours,
Wayne
08-28-2009, 05:47 PM
#140
Don't bet on a shaftie but you never know..................................
Derekb is always on the money. So good he should head up a beer mag!
08-28-2009, 06:42 PM
#141
Though they person/persons that is directed at have no concept of what they are talking about so its probably a wasted effort.
In a time honoured tradition I have no idea what would fix the issue. My Off road cars for example are also purely track cars, cant risk them for general use.
08-29-2009, 03:38 AM
#142
Hi,
I'm from the UK and have followed this discussion with interest. What everyone needs to remember is that we're all entitled to our opinions, and we all have different interests within RC.
What frustrates me is that most magazines are currently focussing on off road and rock crawling. I'm personally into electric on road. Although I'm in the UK, I subscribe to a US r/c car magazine, and if I wasn't tied in for another year, I would stop my subscription at the end of the year because it doesn't cover what I'm interested in, and hasn't done so for quite a while. Regardless of what is currently selling the most kits, magazines must remain balanced with their coverage. The one I read has introduced boats recently. What the hell is that all about ?? If I wanted boats, I'd buy a boat magazine. The magazine is supposed to be about cars. I like on road cars, they give me boats !!
I think the way forward for magazine coverage, and to bring in new blood into our hobby is to look at lower priced models and RTR ones. I have a RTR and a high end car and I use my RTR one the most, and I've upgraded it quite a bit, but kept the tub chassis as this suits our club the most. My six year old boy has the same RTR and he loves racing r/c. We have quite a few young boys at our club.
A few years ago, one of the magazines did a special edition magazine comparing on road cars and included articles on car set ups. I think this is due for a re-run and they could maybe do something similar for off-road. They could also include some RTR cars to attract new people to the sport. Alternatively, they could run something similar within one of the monthly editions.
Anyway, just my thoughts. However we do it, we need to promote our hobby to bring in new blood.
Good luck, and happy racing.
32819toon
I'm from the UK and have followed this discussion with interest. What everyone needs to remember is that we're all entitled to our opinions, and we all have different interests within RC.
What frustrates me is that most magazines are currently focussing on off road and rock crawling. I'm personally into electric on road. Although I'm in the UK, I subscribe to a US r/c car magazine, and if I wasn't tied in for another year, I would stop my subscription at the end of the year because it doesn't cover what I'm interested in, and hasn't done so for quite a while. Regardless of what is currently selling the most kits, magazines must remain balanced with their coverage. The one I read has introduced boats recently. What the hell is that all about ?? If I wanted boats, I'd buy a boat magazine. The magazine is supposed to be about cars. I like on road cars, they give me boats !!
I think the way forward for magazine coverage, and to bring in new blood into our hobby is to look at lower priced models and RTR ones. I have a RTR and a high end car and I use my RTR one the most, and I've upgraded it quite a bit, but kept the tub chassis as this suits our club the most. My six year old boy has the same RTR and he loves racing r/c. We have quite a few young boys at our club.
A few years ago, one of the magazines did a special edition magazine comparing on road cars and included articles on car set ups. I think this is due for a re-run and they could maybe do something similar for off-road. They could also include some RTR cars to attract new people to the sport. Alternatively, they could run something similar within one of the monthly editions.
Anyway, just my thoughts. However we do it, we need to promote our hobby to bring in new blood.
Good luck, and happy racing.
32819toon
08-29-2009, 08:26 AM
#143
Tech Fanatic
Well, in my last post I offered some ideas that I think would help the on-road cause.
1. Support the HPI Cup Racer and encourage other manufacturers such as Associated, Losi, Tamiya, Kyosho, etc. to come out with their versions of what is being called "true scale" racing with inexpensive touring cars built to actual scale demensions, topped by super realistic bodies with mirrors, wipers, perhaps scale interiors, etc. No wierd day-glow yelow cars with pink flames; require them to look like real race cars! Have very strict rules that limit the amount of development and expense can be put into these cars, or perhaps have a rule that keeps the basic car at around the $200 mark with certain upgrades allowed. Have all cars come standard with bearings and adjustable turnbuckles.
Limit the motors as well; select a certain class of motor whether brushed or brushless and stick to it. Perhaps have a standard battery pack as well.
No one-run tires allowed either. Also, no white or yellow or any other color dish rims allowed. Must be scale wheels and should come with the kit.
2. Encourage Trinity to bring back the Street-Spec car and it's racing class and rules package updated to today. Encourage other manufacturers to follow suit. This was a great class back in the day and with the economy the way it is now and on-road in it's current sad state, I think the time is right for it's return. I plan on personally emailing Trinity to suggest it!
3. The F1 class seems to be making a comeback, and next year in real F1 there will once again be an american F1 team known as USF1 in Formula One racing. Tamiya has the new F104 Pro, HPI the new F10, Corally, MLP, TGR, Tech, etc. all have F1 cars that are available and are being raced out there; yet for some reason the magazines have'nt caught on to that yet. Only RC Driver so far has had an article/review of the Tamiya F104 Pro. This is one of my favorite classes!
We need to create simple, fun classes of racing that will appeal to more people and once we get them into it we need to be responsible and keep the costs under control so that no one gets pushed out because they can't afford to keep up anymore. I sincerely, hope that this "scale realism" trend really takes off as that is what initally drew me to rc cars 25 years ago with the old Tamiya kits that were all about cars thet actually looked like the full-scale ones. On-road has drifted away from that, just like slot car racing did in the 1970's when they went after pure performance with bodies that looked like a wedge doorstop and not at all like a real car, and it nearly killed the hobby. Now the resurrection of slot car racing has been built around super scale looking cars that look like diecast models and it is working!; the hobby is growing again.
On-road rc racing has been heading down the pure performance only path for a long time now and it is killing that segment. We need to follow the lead of slot car racing and get back to scale appearance cars with cost controls.
So I hope that the magazine people are still reading this and hopefully some manufacturers as well. I will continue to send them all emails and pass on these ideas. I encourage all of you to do the same. Thank you.
1. Support the HPI Cup Racer and encourage other manufacturers such as Associated, Losi, Tamiya, Kyosho, etc. to come out with their versions of what is being called "true scale" racing with inexpensive touring cars built to actual scale demensions, topped by super realistic bodies with mirrors, wipers, perhaps scale interiors, etc. No wierd day-glow yelow cars with pink flames; require them to look like real race cars! Have very strict rules that limit the amount of development and expense can be put into these cars, or perhaps have a rule that keeps the basic car at around the $200 mark with certain upgrades allowed. Have all cars come standard with bearings and adjustable turnbuckles.
Limit the motors as well; select a certain class of motor whether brushed or brushless and stick to it. Perhaps have a standard battery pack as well.
No one-run tires allowed either. Also, no white or yellow or any other color dish rims allowed. Must be scale wheels and should come with the kit.
2. Encourage Trinity to bring back the Street-Spec car and it's racing class and rules package updated to today. Encourage other manufacturers to follow suit. This was a great class back in the day and with the economy the way it is now and on-road in it's current sad state, I think the time is right for it's return. I plan on personally emailing Trinity to suggest it!
3. The F1 class seems to be making a comeback, and next year in real F1 there will once again be an american F1 team known as USF1 in Formula One racing. Tamiya has the new F104 Pro, HPI the new F10, Corally, MLP, TGR, Tech, etc. all have F1 cars that are available and are being raced out there; yet for some reason the magazines have'nt caught on to that yet. Only RC Driver so far has had an article/review of the Tamiya F104 Pro. This is one of my favorite classes!
We need to create simple, fun classes of racing that will appeal to more people and once we get them into it we need to be responsible and keep the costs under control so that no one gets pushed out because they can't afford to keep up anymore. I sincerely, hope that this "scale realism" trend really takes off as that is what initally drew me to rc cars 25 years ago with the old Tamiya kits that were all about cars thet actually looked like the full-scale ones. On-road has drifted away from that, just like slot car racing did in the 1970's when they went after pure performance with bodies that looked like a wedge doorstop and not at all like a real car, and it nearly killed the hobby. Now the resurrection of slot car racing has been built around super scale looking cars that look like diecast models and it is working!; the hobby is growing again.
On-road rc racing has been heading down the pure performance only path for a long time now and it is killing that segment. We need to follow the lead of slot car racing and get back to scale appearance cars with cost controls.
So I hope that the magazine people are still reading this and hopefully some manufacturers as well. I will continue to send them all emails and pass on these ideas. I encourage all of you to do the same. Thank you.
08-29-2009, 12:01 PM
#144
Tech Adept
Team Lotus get a hold of the guys at www.rctvlive.com and let them know what you are doing. Better yet get on facebook under rctvlive and spell out what you want to do so everyone can read it. everyone that visits them there and rctvlive themselves.
contact the editor at RC car action
Derk already knows and is doing something
contact the editor again at rc car
what your doing is good keep it up
contact the editor at RC car action
Derk already knows and is doing something
contact the editor again at rc car
what your doing is good keep it up
08-29-2009, 01:00 PM
#145
1. Support the HPI Cup Racer and encourage other manufacturers such as Associated, Losi, Tamiya, Kyosho, etc. to come out with their versions of what is being called "true scale" racing with inexpensive touring cars built to actual scale demensions, topped by super realistic bodies with mirrors, wipers, perhaps scale interiors, etc. No wierd day-glow yelow cars with pink flames; require them to look like real race cars! Have very strict rules that limit the amount of development and expense can be put into these cars, or perhaps have a rule that keeps the basic car at around the $200 mark with certain upgrades allowed. Have all cars come standard with bearings and adjustable turnbuckles.
Limit the motors as well; select a certain class of motor whether brushed or brushless and stick to it. Perhaps have a standard battery pack as well.
No one-run tires allowed either. Also, no white or yellow or any other color dish rims allowed. Must be scale wheels and should come with the kit.
Limit the motors as well; select a certain class of motor whether brushed or brushless and stick to it. Perhaps have a standard battery pack as well.
No one-run tires allowed either. Also, no white or yellow or any other color dish rims allowed. Must be scale wheels and should come with the kit.
I think that ROAR should embrace the Cup Racer format and make it a new class like they did with the Short Course Trucks. Help the Cup Racer type of car stick around as a low cost entry into the hobby. Maybe have a "box stock" division with approved bodies, electrics and batteries. The cars them selves are already cheaper, but the other bits of gear needed to make the car complete should be regulated to make sure that total cost stays low.
08-29-2009, 03:15 PM
#146
I think this is the best idea. I for one miss the scale realism in RC cars. I once heard a guy say that current TCs look too much like Easter Eggs flying around the track. To some degree the RCGT class fixes that, but the chassis is what is the main hurdle for the new people entering the hobby. I'm just getting into running TCs, but I'm kinda regretting not getting a Cup Racer instead. Some of it is due to what I had to shell out for the TC and some of it is because the Cup racer looks like so much damn fun. After I get some of my current purchases paid down I'll be buying a Cup Racer. If the class grows at my local track then my other 1/10 scale TC will be gone.
I think that ROAR should embrace the Cup Racer format and make it a new class like they did with the Short Course Trucks. Help the Cup Racer type of car stick around as a low cost entry into the hobby. Maybe have a "box stock" division with approved bodies, electrics and batteries. The cars them selves are already cheaper, but the other bits of gear needed to make the car complete should be regulated to make sure that total cost stays low.
I think that ROAR should embrace the Cup Racer format and make it a new class like they did with the Short Course Trucks. Help the Cup Racer type of car stick around as a low cost entry into the hobby. Maybe have a "box stock" division with approved bodies, electrics and batteries. The cars them selves are already cheaper, but the other bits of gear needed to make the car complete should be regulated to make sure that total cost stays low.
I like the idea of no hop-ups...
08-29-2009, 04:03 PM
#147
I think onroad drivers are killing onroad, has nothing to do with magazines or offroad, but that's just my opinion. I haven't been in onroad rc long enough to know much about cycle swings, but I definitely see a difference in the attitude towards the hobby between offroad and onroad(electric\nitro) i believe is causing more people to race offroad.
08-29-2009, 06:30 PM
#148
Tech Fanatic
microcrazy24, MonkeyFist and Keith Billanti, thank you for your thoughts on this subject and I agree with all of you. Microcrazy 24 I have been in contact with Matt Higgins at RC Car Action, and I plan on sending an email to the editor of RC Car as well. I also sent an email to Trinity, now Team Epic , about bringing back the Street Spec car and series.
MonkeyFist and Keith Billanti, I am glad you like the idea of "scale realism" in rc on-road racing, and the key is a strict set of regulations to keep the cost under control and available to all. I still feel that the basic cost of the car with body should be no more than $200-215 tops including bearings and turnbuckles. $300 is still too much for most to spend on a basic car. The HPI Cup Racer sells for about $205 at Tower Hobbies and that includes the body, bearings, etc. That's where the price should be!
And yes a "box stock" division would be a great idea and any other division of the Cup Racer class should also have strict regulations in place to keep the costs down, otherwise the people with money to burn will take over and buy every imaginable hop-up available and price everyone else out! If some governing body such as ROAR were to severely limit what can be done and produced for these cars then the manufacturers and aftermarket parts companies are less likely to flood the market with all those expensive parts that push the cost up.
While I'm at it as a side note; I'm a big fan of the whole brushless motor idea and I want to switch over to them ( less maintenance, more efficient, better power, etc.) they are for some reason way too expensive still. I was at my local hobby shop the other day and he had some Novak brushless motors that were $90 each!!! And in searching the web the going rate for 1/10 540 size brushless motors seems to be between $80-90 regardless of brand.That's just ridiculous and no new person to the sport is going to go out and spend $90 for a motor and then over $120 for a speed control for it. Not going to happen. Brushless has been out now for a few years, why are they still so expensive?!!
Anyway, I will continue to send emails and I will look into the rctvlive idea as well.
MonkeyFist and Keith Billanti, I am glad you like the idea of "scale realism" in rc on-road racing, and the key is a strict set of regulations to keep the cost under control and available to all. I still feel that the basic cost of the car with body should be no more than $200-215 tops including bearings and turnbuckles. $300 is still too much for most to spend on a basic car. The HPI Cup Racer sells for about $205 at Tower Hobbies and that includes the body, bearings, etc. That's where the price should be!
And yes a "box stock" division would be a great idea and any other division of the Cup Racer class should also have strict regulations in place to keep the costs down, otherwise the people with money to burn will take over and buy every imaginable hop-up available and price everyone else out! If some governing body such as ROAR were to severely limit what can be done and produced for these cars then the manufacturers and aftermarket parts companies are less likely to flood the market with all those expensive parts that push the cost up.
While I'm at it as a side note; I'm a big fan of the whole brushless motor idea and I want to switch over to them ( less maintenance, more efficient, better power, etc.) they are for some reason way too expensive still. I was at my local hobby shop the other day and he had some Novak brushless motors that were $90 each!!! And in searching the web the going rate for 1/10 540 size brushless motors seems to be between $80-90 regardless of brand.That's just ridiculous and no new person to the sport is going to go out and spend $90 for a motor and then over $120 for a speed control for it. Not going to happen. Brushless has been out now for a few years, why are they still so expensive?!!
Anyway, I will continue to send emails and I will look into the rctvlive idea as well.
08-29-2009, 07:12 PM
#149
Interestingly enough Nascar has been feeling the same sentiments by some of their hardcore fans. The COT cars that are raced today bare little resemblance, if any to cars that we drive. In fact they are identical which makes it difficult for fans to identify with an actual race car. This is unique to Nascar because for years the vehicles raced looked like actual production vehicles.
Microcrazy, sorry bud can NOT show any pictures now.
Have fun, Jeff
Microcrazy, sorry bud can NOT show any pictures now.
Have fun, Jeff
08-29-2009, 07:31 PM
#150
See- once you start dumping the cost to 200.00, i think your posing a problem.
I have been a pretty hardcore racer for the past 10 years or so- even though i have been "off" for a couple years.. Coming back, i intend to compete nationally..
with that said- i cant justify a completely spec class. I mean, we have mini coopers for that.
The chassis would have to be somewhat on par with todays top cars... which, IMHO dont need to cost 500.00.
Losi and AE both put out some impressive kits quality wise and neither of them are ridiculously priced.
and truthfully, if there was a cap on the price of the chassis- OR-- a rule that says no NEW pro chassis over X amount.. that might be appealing.
By that i mean, you can run the 007 and 008, but not the 009.. or something to that effect.
this would encourage people to spend less on the chassis. AND it would stop a lot of sales of the new kits that cost so much-- perhaps, driving the cost down?
NOW- your remarks on the cost of BL. Last time i went to Cleveland- in 2005... i bought 4 handout motors on top of the two I was Handed out. Most of these motors were duds.. and used for practice.. or simply thrown away. Infact, just this past winter when i bought all BL stuff, i threw a whole box of stock and 19t motors out.. LOL..
the point-- the BL motor lasts,, well... for like- ever. Motor companies are not dumb, and they know they will not be selling motors by the case anymore.. SO- the cost goes up a little. In return, I no longer have to roll to a race with 50 pairs of F brush, or 767 and a gross of springs...
Brushless and Lipo are two reasons I came back.
I have been a pretty hardcore racer for the past 10 years or so- even though i have been "off" for a couple years.. Coming back, i intend to compete nationally..
with that said- i cant justify a completely spec class. I mean, we have mini coopers for that.
The chassis would have to be somewhat on par with todays top cars... which, IMHO dont need to cost 500.00.
Losi and AE both put out some impressive kits quality wise and neither of them are ridiculously priced.
and truthfully, if there was a cap on the price of the chassis- OR-- a rule that says no NEW pro chassis over X amount.. that might be appealing.
By that i mean, you can run the 007 and 008, but not the 009.. or something to that effect.
this would encourage people to spend less on the chassis. AND it would stop a lot of sales of the new kits that cost so much-- perhaps, driving the cost down?
NOW- your remarks on the cost of BL. Last time i went to Cleveland- in 2005... i bought 4 handout motors on top of the two I was Handed out. Most of these motors were duds.. and used for practice.. or simply thrown away. Infact, just this past winter when i bought all BL stuff, i threw a whole box of stock and 19t motors out.. LOL..
the point-- the BL motor lasts,, well... for like- ever. Motor companies are not dumb, and they know they will not be selling motors by the case anymore.. SO- the cost goes up a little. In return, I no longer have to roll to a race with 50 pairs of F brush, or 767 and a gross of springs...
Brushless and Lipo are two reasons I came back.