9Likes3racing F109
02-08-2010, 02:24 PM
#661
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
I have run mine, almost kit standard, on a worn and cold carpet, and it runs great (27t and lipo). There are a few things that you can do to aid high speed handling though, and it centers around the rear wing.
I have glued up one hole on the 3 hole main damper, also glue up one on the roll damper too.
I have glued up one hole on the 3 hole main damper, also glue up one on the roll damper too.
02-09-2010, 10:25 AM
#663
Tech Initiate
Sorry for all questions ahead of time. I tried reading thru this thread with some luck but gave up after a few hours. I have a few questions and comments about the F109 I just bought and I’m trying to build.
1) The tie-rod wrench they provided doesn't fit the tie-rods. is there a part number for the correct one? Or is this the norm?
2) The diff balls fit extremely tight into the spur gear. Do I just have a bad molded part or is this just par for the molded parts of this car? I’m amazed a new car kit requires you to take the diff apart to change tires. After building the brand new diff, I have to say it is the worst feeling diff I have even built new from the package.
3) Why don't they provide a bearing for the spur gear, so it doesn't wear away the axle.
4) I'm also concerned about the set screws ruining the fiber axle. Why not go to a one piece axle with the diff ring plate attached to the axle? Like Associated or IRS, etc
5)Also the set screw of the left hub, why not a clamping type.
6) The front kingpin also shouldn't ride thru an aluminum pivot. This is going to cause and increase in wear and roughness of the parts. Also is there any way to change front ride height. The kingpins also don’t seem long enough, there is already preload on the kit front springs and no way to take it out without cutting parts.
7) The castor adjustment for the front end has hash marks to indicate castor, but no mating mark to line it up with. I'm assuming you need to adjust the castor with a gage then mark the opposite plastic part. But with this type of front end it doesn't leave any adjustment for the slight mis-threading in of the camber tie-rod. so when you slide the upper arms forward you can have 2 degrees on one side and 4 on the other with no way of fixing this without buying new parts and trying to screw the tie-rod in perfect.
8) While installing the rear drag links I measured them prior to installing them and found some rear steer. after taking the car back apart I found the bottom pod plate wasn't machined correctly. the holes for the drag links aren't in the same location front to back, nor left to right. they are only off .015 in one direction and .010 in the other.
Any help will be appreciated for the above issues and I would also like to know if there are any aftermarket upgrades for this kit. I know I bought an inexpensive kit compared to others but I did expect more quality then what I got. I bought this car spur of the moment and so far regret buying it. Hopefully it’s allot of fun driving, because it hasn't been fun building. I don’t want to sound like a jerk but I read most of this thread not hearing many people having issues with the car. I’m surprised I’m the only one with all these issues without even having half the car built yet.
1) The tie-rod wrench they provided doesn't fit the tie-rods. is there a part number for the correct one? Or is this the norm?
2) The diff balls fit extremely tight into the spur gear. Do I just have a bad molded part or is this just par for the molded parts of this car? I’m amazed a new car kit requires you to take the diff apart to change tires. After building the brand new diff, I have to say it is the worst feeling diff I have even built new from the package.
3) Why don't they provide a bearing for the spur gear, so it doesn't wear away the axle.
4) I'm also concerned about the set screws ruining the fiber axle. Why not go to a one piece axle with the diff ring plate attached to the axle? Like Associated or IRS, etc
5)Also the set screw of the left hub, why not a clamping type.
6) The front kingpin also shouldn't ride thru an aluminum pivot. This is going to cause and increase in wear and roughness of the parts. Also is there any way to change front ride height. The kingpins also don’t seem long enough, there is already preload on the kit front springs and no way to take it out without cutting parts.
7) The castor adjustment for the front end has hash marks to indicate castor, but no mating mark to line it up with. I'm assuming you need to adjust the castor with a gage then mark the opposite plastic part. But with this type of front end it doesn't leave any adjustment for the slight mis-threading in of the camber tie-rod. so when you slide the upper arms forward you can have 2 degrees on one side and 4 on the other with no way of fixing this without buying new parts and trying to screw the tie-rod in perfect.
8) While installing the rear drag links I measured them prior to installing them and found some rear steer. after taking the car back apart I found the bottom pod plate wasn't machined correctly. the holes for the drag links aren't in the same location front to back, nor left to right. they are only off .015 in one direction and .010 in the other.
Any help will be appreciated for the above issues and I would also like to know if there are any aftermarket upgrades for this kit. I know I bought an inexpensive kit compared to others but I did expect more quality then what I got. I bought this car spur of the moment and so far regret buying it. Hopefully it’s allot of fun driving, because it hasn't been fun building. I don’t want to sound like a jerk but I read most of this thread not hearing many people having issues with the car. I’m surprised I’m the only one with all these issues without even having half the car built yet.
02-09-2010, 01:22 PM
#665
@ mike valentine
i bought my kit as a return to racing after a few years out i am quiet happy with my kit but have altered a few things in return to your questions
1. it was i little poor i tweaked mine open with a pair of pliers so it fit them although i had one that fit in my pit box
2. i built mine with associated carbide diff balls and a 48dp spur so cant comment on the kit stuff as for the diff coming apart i think the tamiyas are the same (not sure about f104) and how often do you change tyres ?
3. i dont know it would have to be a very small bearing ! maybe a machined sleeve would be a bit better!
4 + 5. i have run mine 4 or 5 times and had no prob with the grubs screws on the carbon axel
6. im sure i remember other cars have run like this in the past just keep well greased to prevent wear and keep smooth , washers could be put on the king pin to alter ride height but i have had no reason to do this
7.I had bought the ally upgrade castor adjuster when i got the kit it was pretty inexpensive , it has better markings on and is a bit more solid than the plastic kit one
8.i think i made my links a little longer than in the book but i made sure they was both the same i never checked any holes in the chassis but have had no problem with the car running straight
hope this is of some help im sure every one will have a diffrent option these are just mine overall i was very pleased with the kit as it has a body shell and the kit tyres work well on carpet and what i here they are ok on tarmac too although i havent tried
02-09-2010, 02:59 PM
#667
Sorry for all questions ahead of time. I tried reading thru this thread with some luck but gave up after a few hours. I have a few questions and comments about the F109 I just bought and I’m trying to build.
1) The tie-rod wrench they provided doesn't fit the tie-rods. is there a part number for the correct one? Or is this the norm?
kinda typical
2) The diff balls fit extremely tight into the spur gear. Do I just have a bad molded part or is this just par for the molded parts of this car? I’m amazed a new car kit requires you to take the diff apart to change tires. After building the brand new diff, I have to say it is the worst feeling diff I have even built new from the package.
I didn't have a problem with my spur gear. This is a direct copy of the F103 diff, which forces you to take it apart for tire changes. That being the case, you can order the Tamiya F104 diff and axle, which does not require you to take the diff apart to change tires. There are also several aftermarket companies selling a similar setup
3) Why don't they provide a bearing for the spur gear, so it doesn't wear away the axle.
This is not a problem. I know it's not a pan car pro
diff setup, but it wears fine.
4) I'm also concerned about the set screws ruining the fiber axle. Why not go to a one piece axle with the diff ring plate attached to the axle? Like Associated or IRS, etc
Again, direct Tamiya copy. I think there may be a Japanese company with a clamping axle, but I'm not sure.
5)Also the set screw of the left hub, why not a clamping type.
see above
6) The front kingpin also shouldn't ride thru an aluminum pivot. This is going to cause and increase in wear and roughness of the parts. Also is there any way to change front ride height. The kingpins also don’t seem long enough, there is already preload on the kit front springs and no way to take it out without cutting parts.
You can get an additional 2mm ride height if you remove 2mm from the bottom of the steering knuckle and space it. Also, all Tamiya F103 front end parts should fit, so you may switch to their link type front end parts, or the sliding kingpin style front end. You may be able to find another 3mm king pin that fits as well. You may also be able to use Tamiya pivots in the arms, but don't quote me.
7) The castor adjustment for the front end has hash marks to indicate castor, but no mating mark to line it up with. I'm assuming you need to adjust the castor with a gage then mark the opposite plastic part. But with this type of front end it doesn't leave any adjustment for the slight mis-threading in of the camber tie-rod. so when you slide the upper arms forward you can have 2 degrees on one side and 4 on the other with no way of fixing this without buying new parts and trying to screw the tie-rod in perfect.
3Racing sells an aluminum caster plate, which is properly marked and holds the setting better. It's about $12. Also, be careful with how you mount the lower front arms, as they can get out of square and ruin your front end alignment. I'm trying to figure out a fix for this. Again. Tamiya parts fit and are usually better. If you want to go nuts, there is an awesome setup from TRG
8) While installing the rear drag links I measured them prior to installing them and found some rear steer. after taking the car back apart I found the bottom pod plate wasn't machined correctly. the holes for the drag links aren't in the same location front to back, nor left to right. they are only off .015 in one direction and .010 in the other.
Setup the rear end like a Speedmerchant link car so there is no binding and it will handle fine. It's not a $400 oval car
Any help will be appreciated for the above issues and I would also like to know if there are any aftermarket upgrades for this kit. I know I bought an inexpensive kit compared to others but I did expect more quality then what I got. I bought this car spur of the moment and so far regret buying it. Hopefully it’s allot of fun driving, because it hasn't been fun building. I don’t want to sound like a jerk but I read most of this thread not hearing many people having issues with the car. I’m surprised I’m the only one with all these issues without even having half the car built yet.
It's a $99 car, but trust me it will work fine. Set it up with CRC side springa and tweak screws, and it will work. It honestly is probably the best handling F1 car that uses Tamiya style tires.
BTW, use the 1 hole piston for the side damper. It's the only one that makes any damping action
1) The tie-rod wrench they provided doesn't fit the tie-rods. is there a part number for the correct one? Or is this the norm?
kinda typical
2) The diff balls fit extremely tight into the spur gear. Do I just have a bad molded part or is this just par for the molded parts of this car? I’m amazed a new car kit requires you to take the diff apart to change tires. After building the brand new diff, I have to say it is the worst feeling diff I have even built new from the package.
I didn't have a problem with my spur gear. This is a direct copy of the F103 diff, which forces you to take it apart for tire changes. That being the case, you can order the Tamiya F104 diff and axle, which does not require you to take the diff apart to change tires. There are also several aftermarket companies selling a similar setup
3) Why don't they provide a bearing for the spur gear, so it doesn't wear away the axle.
This is not a problem. I know it's not a pan car pro
diff setup, but it wears fine.
4) I'm also concerned about the set screws ruining the fiber axle. Why not go to a one piece axle with the diff ring plate attached to the axle? Like Associated or IRS, etc
Again, direct Tamiya copy. I think there may be a Japanese company with a clamping axle, but I'm not sure.
5)Also the set screw of the left hub, why not a clamping type.
see above
6) The front kingpin also shouldn't ride thru an aluminum pivot. This is going to cause and increase in wear and roughness of the parts. Also is there any way to change front ride height. The kingpins also don’t seem long enough, there is already preload on the kit front springs and no way to take it out without cutting parts.
You can get an additional 2mm ride height if you remove 2mm from the bottom of the steering knuckle and space it. Also, all Tamiya F103 front end parts should fit, so you may switch to their link type front end parts, or the sliding kingpin style front end. You may be able to find another 3mm king pin that fits as well. You may also be able to use Tamiya pivots in the arms, but don't quote me.
7) The castor adjustment for the front end has hash marks to indicate castor, but no mating mark to line it up with. I'm assuming you need to adjust the castor with a gage then mark the opposite plastic part. But with this type of front end it doesn't leave any adjustment for the slight mis-threading in of the camber tie-rod. so when you slide the upper arms forward you can have 2 degrees on one side and 4 on the other with no way of fixing this without buying new parts and trying to screw the tie-rod in perfect.
3Racing sells an aluminum caster plate, which is properly marked and holds the setting better. It's about $12. Also, be careful with how you mount the lower front arms, as they can get out of square and ruin your front end alignment. I'm trying to figure out a fix for this. Again. Tamiya parts fit and are usually better. If you want to go nuts, there is an awesome setup from TRG
8) While installing the rear drag links I measured them prior to installing them and found some rear steer. after taking the car back apart I found the bottom pod plate wasn't machined correctly. the holes for the drag links aren't in the same location front to back, nor left to right. they are only off .015 in one direction and .010 in the other.
Setup the rear end like a Speedmerchant link car so there is no binding and it will handle fine. It's not a $400 oval car
Any help will be appreciated for the above issues and I would also like to know if there are any aftermarket upgrades for this kit. I know I bought an inexpensive kit compared to others but I did expect more quality then what I got. I bought this car spur of the moment and so far regret buying it. Hopefully it’s allot of fun driving, because it hasn't been fun building. I don’t want to sound like a jerk but I read most of this thread not hearing many people having issues with the car. I’m surprised I’m the only one with all these issues without even having half the car built yet.
It's a $99 car, but trust me it will work fine. Set it up with CRC side springa and tweak screws, and it will work. It honestly is probably the best handling F1 car that uses Tamiya style tires.
BTW, use the 1 hole piston for the side damper. It's the only one that makes any damping action
02-09-2010, 04:33 PM
#668
Tech Master
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tween a Rock & a Hard Place in Pa.
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^^^+1
02-09-2010, 06:18 PM
#669
Tech Initiate
robk, I can easily turn it into a $400 Roadcourse car, LOL
Maybe I should use a different handle, LOL
Maybe I should use a different handle, LOL
02-10-2010, 04:18 PM
#670
As far as the front end lower arms shifting, I think I have a solution that might work. The problem looks like the 2 slots that run parallel to the 2 front end 4mm screws. I drilled the ends of the slots for a 3mm grub screw, and then tapped and installed like a 5mm long grub screw. This should lock down the front end by pinning the ends of the slots. It seems much more solid now, but I will have to track test it. Will post pics later.
02-11-2010, 04:12 AM
#671
there are a lot of option parts due for the f109 , i would expect them to be released once the sakura hits the shops..which is early april
02-11-2010, 11:26 AM
#672
Tech Initiate
Can I get a link to the rules for F1 in general, or is it changed per track?
02-11-2010, 11:57 AM
#674
hopefully they have some new rear axle parts so f104 rubber rims can be used while still retianing the 200mm width. that way rubber tires and rims will be more available as i cant seem to find any other than the trgs which are out of stock and also are they even made anymore?
02-11-2010, 01:40 PM
#675
The old HPI Super F1, Corally, CRC Power F1, RCIndyCars etc. all are technically F1 but they use 1/10 pan car wheels and have less realistic front ends. Some places don't allow them because of this.