The reason for the lack of mod drivers...
06-17-2009, 06:59 PM
#121
with the speeds you can get out of a 13.5 and it being cheaper then mod, most people are staying with 13.5, that is why this year our club decided not to offer the 13.5 or 10.5 classes, the result, down to a C main in 17.5, Full heats of Mod and growing with record turn outs.
There are way too many classes to choose from, which is killing the turnouts out this way in all of them.
06-17-2009, 07:17 PM
#122
No, stock needs to remain 17.5. I thought that the consensus was that 17.5 was plenty fast (almost too fast) for stock. Look at the lap times Josh posted above. Why would we make stock even faster with a 13.5, unless you're also considering 1s LiPo for stock?
06-17-2009, 07:21 PM
#123
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
The first thing that should be solved is making mod the same around the world. 5 cell is nice, but it's based on NiMH, which is clearly on its way out.
So, at the risk of offending the open mod purists... what about a World Spec Modified class? Something that's (hopefully) adopted around the world as the new mod, keeps the door open for NiMH or LiPo, and slows things down enough so they're still within reach of today's racer. Someone mentioned 10.5 max, which seems as good as anything, 'cause it's still rather fast, and is already easily available as a spec wind.
This seems to make sense on short tracks, which is where a lot of racing is done around the world. Obviously on bigger tracks, something like open mod might make more sense.
So, at the risk of offending the open mod purists... what about a World Spec Modified class? Something that's (hopefully) adopted around the world as the new mod, keeps the door open for NiMH or LiPo, and slows things down enough so they're still within reach of today's racer. Someone mentioned 10.5 max, which seems as good as anything, 'cause it's still rather fast, and is already easily available as a spec wind.
This seems to make sense on short tracks, which is where a lot of racing is done around the world. Obviously on bigger tracks, something like open mod might make more sense.
06-17-2009, 09:50 PM
#128
Excellent!!!!
21.5 VTA
17.5 Stock
13.5 SS (Super Stock) Duh! lol
7.5-10.5 MOD
All classes 2cell 7.4v 5300mAh 40c MAX
After all, if someone starts out slowly in VTA and gets good quickly, he will already have the packs to run anything! No speedo regulations so it will work for almost any class. I don't see any need for anything faster than an SPX with an 8.5 IMHO. Lets keep it below Mach one okay guys?
21.5 VTA
17.5 Stock
13.5 SS (Super Stock) Duh! lol
7.5-10.5 MOD
All classes 2cell 7.4v 5300mAh 40c MAX
After all, if someone starts out slowly in VTA and gets good quickly, he will already have the packs to run anything! No speedo regulations so it will work for almost any class. I don't see any need for anything faster than an SPX with an 8.5 IMHO. Lets keep it below Mach one okay guys?
06-17-2009, 10:08 PM
#129
Just seems kinda strange to me that a 4wd mod buggy can run a 5.5, but people are scared to go lower than 7.5 in a 4wd sedan. I can't see that being all that much fun on a large track...
At last years ROAR asphalt nats, there wasn't a ton of traction, and yet modified was able to go quite a bit faster than a 10.5 (superstock at that time) was able to go. I think my fast lap with a mod was .4 faster than I was able to go with 10.5, which would put it at about .6 faster than a 13.5 we would run today.
Isn't part of the fun of mod being able to go faster than the other classes?
At last years ROAR asphalt nats, there wasn't a ton of traction, and yet modified was able to go quite a bit faster than a 10.5 (superstock at that time) was able to go. I think my fast lap with a mod was .4 faster than I was able to go with 10.5, which would put it at about .6 faster than a 13.5 we would run today.
Isn't part of the fun of mod being able to go faster than the other classes?
06-17-2009, 10:19 PM
#130
Tech Rookie
For sure there are too many motor classes per class of car!
The quality of racing and therefore numbers would be so much better if Mod and Stock were the only classes at big events. Adding 10.5 as well just waters everything down.
For example an event with say, 40 Stock, 40 10.5 and 20 Modified just doesn't have the same atmosphere (for lack of a better word) as an event with 70 Stock and 30 Modified entries. This is because when there are more cars if fewer classes you will get closer racing regardless of your skill level, from the back of the field to the front of the field. Not to mention winning means a lot more too.
All I ever hear from Stock racers is how much they like the close racing on a level playing field, so it just seems so hypocritical to have 2 stock classes!
As a Modified racer, dropping back to 10.5 feels much like stock. I just don't see how racing it prepares you much better for racing Mod than Stock does. So I can't buy into the 'stepping stone' argument for the existence of this class. I only talk about this because until we fix the Stock classes, Modified will also suffer.
The Modified class has gone through many changes these past few years, in a large part to combat the high failure rates of brushed motors and the unreliability of the early brushless systems. Now that we have got to the point where equipment failures are few and far between, what we need more than anything is some stability with the rules. Every time the rules change it is very expensive for the privateers and we just lose more and more drivers.
As for stock drivers proposing changes to the modified class under the guise of making it more accessible, it has never worked. It's how we ended up with LiPo in my area and I've yet to see any stock drivers make the step up after getting their way with the rules.
The quality of racing and therefore numbers would be so much better if Mod and Stock were the only classes at big events. Adding 10.5 as well just waters everything down.
For example an event with say, 40 Stock, 40 10.5 and 20 Modified just doesn't have the same atmosphere (for lack of a better word) as an event with 70 Stock and 30 Modified entries. This is because when there are more cars if fewer classes you will get closer racing regardless of your skill level, from the back of the field to the front of the field. Not to mention winning means a lot more too.
All I ever hear from Stock racers is how much they like the close racing on a level playing field, so it just seems so hypocritical to have 2 stock classes!
As a Modified racer, dropping back to 10.5 feels much like stock. I just don't see how racing it prepares you much better for racing Mod than Stock does. So I can't buy into the 'stepping stone' argument for the existence of this class. I only talk about this because until we fix the Stock classes, Modified will also suffer.
The Modified class has gone through many changes these past few years, in a large part to combat the high failure rates of brushed motors and the unreliability of the early brushless systems. Now that we have got to the point where equipment failures are few and far between, what we need more than anything is some stability with the rules. Every time the rules change it is very expensive for the privateers and we just lose more and more drivers.
As for stock drivers proposing changes to the modified class under the guise of making it more accessible, it has never worked. It's how we ended up with LiPo in my area and I've yet to see any stock drivers make the step up after getting their way with the rules.
06-17-2009, 10:47 PM
#131
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (6)
I can remember my first ROAR national, 1999 Paved Electric at Ripon Speedway. 2 classes, stock and mod. If I remember correctly 90+ in Stock TC and 60+ in Mod TC. Making the B in stock or mod was something to be proud of back then. Racing overall was better, and funner. Mod was drive-able, way less voltage and way less motor. More guys could race it.
Unless you're on a big track open mod theses days is crazy. The Reedy is a good example of how fast spec motor racing has gotten. On the typical indoor US track open mod is insane. 45-50 mph 3 lbs. projectiles flying down the back strait. Some will say it's on the verge of unsafe. Something has to change if we're ever going to see the glory days of mod sedan.
There are a lot of really good ideas here. This is an awesome discussion!!!!!!!
Unless you're on a big track open mod theses days is crazy. The Reedy is a good example of how fast spec motor racing has gotten. On the typical indoor US track open mod is insane. 45-50 mph 3 lbs. projectiles flying down the back strait. Some will say it's on the verge of unsafe. Something has to change if we're ever going to see the glory days of mod sedan.
There are a lot of really good ideas here. This is an awesome discussion!!!!!!!
06-17-2009, 11:23 PM
#132
y need 2 classes of stock..? doesn't make sense...
juz make them into 1... unless some r unhappy that they will have lower chances of winning plastic medals...
simply stock 13.5 n mod... u'll have more turnout...
i race 11.5t stock... mod 4.5 if the track is big... both powered by lipo... too much rules also causes less turnout...
RC race nowadays have too many classes... TC stock, TC super stock, TC mod, 12th stock..?, 12th mod..?, m-chasis..? carpet..? alpshat..? rubber..? foam..?
luckily, in my area we only race rubber/alpshat, 11.5T or mod... simple...
juz make them into 1... unless some r unhappy that they will have lower chances of winning plastic medals...
simply stock 13.5 n mod... u'll have more turnout...
i race 11.5t stock... mod 4.5 if the track is big... both powered by lipo... too much rules also causes less turnout...
RC race nowadays have too many classes... TC stock, TC super stock, TC mod, 12th stock..?, 12th mod..?, m-chasis..? carpet..? alpshat..? rubber..? foam..?
luckily, in my area we only race rubber/alpshat, 11.5T or mod... simple...
06-18-2009, 12:54 AM
#133
Maybe people are looking at it wrong, maybe instead of the cars being too fast, the tracks are too slow, it seems to me that the car technology has moved forward but the tracks haven't
In full size racing the tracks are changed to accommodate the cars over the years as they have gotten faster, not the other way around (mostly).
In full size racing the tracks are changed to accommodate the cars over the years as they have gotten faster, not the other way around (mostly).
06-18-2009, 01:04 AM
#134
Maybe people are looking at it wrong, maybe instead of the cars being too fast, the tracks are too slow, it seems to me that the car technology has moved forward but the tracks haven't
In full size racing the tracks are changed to accommodate the cars over the years as they have gotten faster, not the other way around (mostly).
In full size racing the tracks are changed to accommodate the cars over the years as they have gotten faster, not the other way around (mostly).
06-18-2009, 01:09 AM
#135
I can remember my first ROAR national, 1999 Paved Electric at Ripon Speedway. 2 classes, stock and mod. If I remember correctly 90+ in Stock TC and 60+ in Mod TC. Making the B in stock or mod was something to be proud of back then. Racing overall was better, and funner. Mod was drive-able, way less voltage and way less motor. More guys could race it.
Unless you're on a big track open mod theses days is crazy. The Reedy is a good example of how fast spec motor racing has gotten. On the typical indoor US track open mod is insane. 45-50 mph 3 lbs. projectiles flying down the back strait. Some will say it's on the verge of unsafe. Something has to change if we're ever going to see the glory days of mod sedan.
There are a lot of really good ideas here. This is an awesome discussion!!!!!!!
Unless you're on a big track open mod theses days is crazy. The Reedy is a good example of how fast spec motor racing has gotten. On the typical indoor US track open mod is insane. 45-50 mph 3 lbs. projectiles flying down the back strait. Some will say it's on the verge of unsafe. Something has to change if we're ever going to see the glory days of mod sedan.
There are a lot of really good ideas here. This is an awesome discussion!!!!!!!
-Korey
