The reason for the lack of mod drivers...
06-18-2009, 11:43 AM
#166
PartTime - Yep, and most in Mod (with the exception of 4wd) run 10.5's as anything hotter is too hard to drive - I went 4wd off-road racing at an indoor track and anything hotter than maybe an 8.5 was too much. Also, at the rediculos speeds of off-road 
Mod is running what, high 20-low 30mph range... Not even close to the high 40's low 50's that Mod on-road runs... You can't even compare off-road to on-road.
Mod is running what, high 20-low 30mph range... Not even close to the high 40's low 50's that Mod on-road runs... You can't even compare off-road to on-road.
Thank you.
06-18-2009, 11:50 AM
#167
yep, they had to start paying for stuff and/or getting real jobs. my heart goes out to them. 
(of course that's not the case for all the guys we don't see at the track anymore - but it sure did happen quickly over the last year or two). it's easy to get spoiled. by support... or by having a multitude of class offerings. 
that seems to be a good recipe ...
... for the 7 drivers across the u.s. that are currently enthused about pushing said envelope.
in theory, that's great. we're talking more about the reality here. sometimes the envelope just won't hold any more. many think we are witnessing a working example of that condition at the moment.
speaking of reality, we're not talking about slowing mod down to a level where you can drive it like an on/off switch. and we're not talking about making it a class where johnny idiot should be running either. we're talking about taking the edge off of it. that's all. 5-cell mod is WAY softer on the bottom than 6 or li-po. why did other parts of the world move to 5-cell? was there a shortage of cells i'm not aware of? was it a fear of even numbers? c'mon. take something intelligent away from this. how many guys overseas are complaining that mod racing is too slow with 5-cell? WAIT! how many experienced racers are complaining that it's too slow? did they all just quit racing when it moved to 5-cell?
whoa, josh. you expect people reading this to buy into this?
one of the issues is that sensible people are far outnumbered here. it used to be that roar made rules based on racer preferences. you know, the guys that actually showed up, and raced by these rules, and communicated their concerns face to face or over the phone.
(of course that's not the case for all the guys we don't see at the track anymore - but it sure did happen quickly over the last year or two). it's easy to get spoiled. by support... or by having a multitude of class offerings. that seems to be a good recipe ...
... for the 7 drivers across the u.s. that are currently enthused about pushing said envelope.
in theory, that's great. we're talking more about the reality here. sometimes the envelope just won't hold any more. many think we are witnessing a working example of that condition at the moment.speaking of reality, we're not talking about slowing mod down to a level where you can drive it like an on/off switch. and we're not talking about making it a class where johnny idiot should be running either. we're talking about taking the edge off of it. that's all. 5-cell mod is WAY softer on the bottom than 6 or li-po. why did other parts of the world move to 5-cell? was there a shortage of cells i'm not aware of? was it a fear of even numbers? c'mon. take something intelligent away from this. how many guys overseas are complaining that mod racing is too slow with 5-cell? WAIT! how many experienced racers are complaining that it's too slow? did they all just quit racing when it moved to 5-cell?
whoa, josh. you expect people reading this to buy into this?
one of the issues is that sensible people are far outnumbered here. it used to be that roar made rules based on racer preferences. you know, the guys that actually showed up, and raced by these rules, and communicated their concerns face to face or over the phone.
06-18-2009, 11:55 AM
#168
I think making a mod spec motor for all track's is a BAD idea. Just because a few tracks are 80' X 40' and running a 4.5 with a 2cell lipo would be hard for most dosen't mean rules should be changed for ALL tracks. My local track is 160' X 68' and running a 4.5/ lipo is fine for those that chose to run mod.
I think track owner's need to look at what they have (ie: track size, surface, lane size) and create class's based off that. Not what ROAR or anyone else tells them to run.
And if a track wants to submit a bid for a ROAR nationals they should include in there bid what they feel would be the best class's / motor limits for there track.
Example: 80' X 40' carpet track, 8' lanes
Sedan Stock... 21.5bl
Sedan SS... 17.5bl
Sedan Mod...13.5bl
160' X 68 ashpalt, 11' lanes
Sedan Stock... 17.5bl
Sedan SS... 13.5bl
Sedan Mod... Open
Track owner's creating class's on what they have to offer the racer's is only going to help ther business and this hobby grow.
Just my .02
I think track owner's need to look at what they have (ie: track size, surface, lane size) and create class's based off that. Not what ROAR or anyone else tells them to run.
And if a track wants to submit a bid for a ROAR nationals they should include in there bid what they feel would be the best class's / motor limits for there track.
Example: 80' X 40' carpet track, 8' lanes
Sedan Stock... 21.5bl
Sedan SS... 17.5bl
Sedan Mod...13.5bl
160' X 68 ashpalt, 11' lanes
Sedan Stock... 17.5bl
Sedan SS... 13.5bl
Sedan Mod... Open
Track owner's creating class's on what they have to offer the racer's is only going to help ther business and this hobby grow.
Just my .02
06-18-2009, 12:04 PM
#170
Why does everybody keep thinking they have to put a limit on what mod motor they run? The whole idea behind mod is to drive with as much power as you possibly can under control and make run time, period.
If you can't drive a 4.5 stick a 6.5 in, if that doensn't work use a 10.5, thats just part of the strategy of racing. Know your own limits, if you can't figure it out, the track boards will help you decide if you overdrove your power ability.
If you can't drive a 4.5 stick a 6.5 in, if that doensn't work use a 10.5, thats just part of the strategy of racing. Know your own limits, if you can't figure it out, the track boards will help you decide if you overdrove your power ability.
06-18-2009, 12:04 PM
#171
I think making a mod spec motor for all track's is a BAD idea. Just because a few tracks are 80' X 40' and running a 4.5 with a 2cell lipo would be hard for most dosen't mean rules should be changed for ALL tracks. My local track is 160' X 68' and running a 4.5/ lipo is fine for those that chose to run mod.
I think track owner's need to look at what they have (ie: track size, surface, lane size) and create class's based off that. Not what ROAR or anyone else tells them to run.
And if a track wants to submit a bid for a ROAR nationals they should include in there bid what they feel would be the best class's / motor limits for there track.
Example: 80' X 40' carpet track, 8' lanes
Sedan Stock... 21.5bl
Sedan SS... 17.5bl
Sedan Mod...13.5bl
160' X 68 ashpalt, 11' lanes
Sedan Stock... 17.5bl
Sedan SS... 13.5bl
Sedan Mod... Open
Track owner's creating class's on what they have to offer the racer's is only going to help ther business and this hobby grow.
Just my .02
I think track owner's need to look at what they have (ie: track size, surface, lane size) and create class's based off that. Not what ROAR or anyone else tells them to run.
And if a track wants to submit a bid for a ROAR nationals they should include in there bid what they feel would be the best class's / motor limits for there track.
Example: 80' X 40' carpet track, 8' lanes
Sedan Stock... 21.5bl
Sedan SS... 17.5bl
Sedan Mod...13.5bl
160' X 68 ashpalt, 11' lanes
Sedan Stock... 17.5bl
Sedan SS... 13.5bl
Sedan Mod... Open
Track owner's creating class's on what they have to offer the racer's is only going to help ther business and this hobby grow.
Just my .02
Just something to consider.
06-18-2009, 12:05 PM
#172
I think making a mod spec motor for all track's is a BAD idea. Just because a few tracks are 80' X 40' and running a 4.5 with a 2cell lipo would be hard for most dosen't mean rules should be changed for ALL tracks. My local track is 160' X 68' and running a 4.5/ lipo is fine for those that chose to run mod.
I think track owner's need to look at what they have (ie: track size, surface, lane size) and create class's based off that. Not what ROAR or anyone else tells them to run.
And if a track wants to submit a bid for a ROAR nationals they should include in there bid what they feel would be the best class's / motor limits for there track.
Example: 80' X 40' carpet track, 8' lanes
Sedan Stock... 21.5bl
Sedan SS... 17.5bl
Sedan Mod...13.5bl
160' X 68 ashpalt, 11' lanes
Sedan Stock... 17.5bl
Sedan SS... 13.5bl
Sedan Mod... Open
Track owner's creating class's on what they have to offer the racer's is only going to help ther business and this hobby grow.
Just my .02
I think track owner's need to look at what they have (ie: track size, surface, lane size) and create class's based off that. Not what ROAR or anyone else tells them to run.
And if a track wants to submit a bid for a ROAR nationals they should include in there bid what they feel would be the best class's / motor limits for there track.
Example: 80' X 40' carpet track, 8' lanes
Sedan Stock... 21.5bl
Sedan SS... 17.5bl
Sedan Mod...13.5bl
160' X 68 ashpalt, 11' lanes
Sedan Stock... 17.5bl
Sedan SS... 13.5bl
Sedan Mod... Open
Track owner's creating class's on what they have to offer the racer's is only going to help ther business and this hobby grow.
Just my .02
I'd be more on board for on-road running 2 classes mod and stock, now is that 13.5 17.5, or 10.5 13.5 it doesn't matter just keep it simple to help save what we have left of a great base of RC car.
TC:
Mod 10.5 1S
Stock 17.5 1S
12th:
Mod 10.5 1S
Stock 17.5 1S
WGT
10 or 13.5 1S
06-18-2009, 12:13 PM
#174
Agreed but at the same time it's fragmenting TC down even further than it already is and that's not going to end well either.
I'd be more on board for on-road running 2 classes mod and stock, now is that 13.5 17.5, or 10.5 13.5 it doesn't matter just keep it simple to help save what we have left of a great base of RC car.
TC:
Mod 10.5 1S
Stock 17.5 1S
12th:
Mod 10.5 1S
Stock 17.5 1S
WGT
10 or 13.5 1S
I'd be more on board for on-road running 2 classes mod and stock, now is that 13.5 17.5, or 10.5 13.5 it doesn't matter just keep it simple to help save what we have left of a great base of RC car.
TC:
Mod 10.5 1S
Stock 17.5 1S
12th:
Mod 10.5 1S
Stock 17.5 1S
WGT
10 or 13.5 1S
I know most like to run 2 sedan class's when going to a ROAR nat's and if there's only stock and mod you can't do that. (per ROAR rules)
06-18-2009, 12:14 PM
#175
You know what's pretty funny, over in the nitro On Road forum they never have problems/discussions like this. There are 2 classes, TC and 1/8 sometimes Masters 1/8. At the last race I was at, there was almost 100 tc and 80 1/8 cars. Now that's racin'!!
Yet there are way more in the US that race on carpet than nitro on-road and we can't get a field between 3 tc classes on carpet to total 100 people.....
Interesting!!!
Yet there are way more in the US that race on carpet than nitro on-road and we can't get a field between 3 tc classes on carpet to total 100 people.....
Interesting!!!
06-18-2009, 12:17 PM
#176
I understand what you are saying here, but if ROAR were to go with a one-size limit for Mod, that would reduce the amount of motors a non-factory racer would need to purchase. If every track ran a different motor as the Mod mimimum, a Mod racer would be forced to buy something for each track just to keep up.
Just something to consider.
Just something to consider.
06-18-2009, 12:24 PM
#177
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
Why does everybody keep thinking they have to put a limit on what mod motor they run? The whole idea behind mod is to drive with as much power as you possibly can under control and make run time, period.
If you can't drive a 4.5 stick a 6.5 in, if that doensn't work use a 10.5, thats just part of the strategy of racing. Know your own limits, if you can't figure it out, the track boards will help you decide if you overdrove your power ability.
If you can't drive a 4.5 stick a 6.5 in, if that doensn't work use a 10.5, thats just part of the strategy of racing. Know your own limits, if you can't figure it out, the track boards will help you decide if you overdrove your power ability.
Home work assignment... EVERYONE (not just those who wish to voice their opinion about a class of racing they know nothing about) grab a 4.5 (being reasonable) and a 5000, 40C pack and go drive. Get 6-10 people out on the track and try and race.... Tell me how much fun you have and how much money you spent doing it.....
06-18-2009, 12:27 PM
#178
Home work assignment... EVERYONE (not just those who wish to voice their opinion about a class of racing they know nothing about) grab a 4.5 (being reasonable) and a 5000, 40C pack and go drive. Get 6-10 people out on the track and try and race.... Tell me how much fun you have and how much money you spent doing it.....
06-18-2009, 12:27 PM
#179
The discussion seems to be heading toward what it takes to make mod more desirable for today's racer. I think you have to look at what's working in the other classes that are still popular, and consider applying those ideals to mod as well. And that seems to be spec motor racing that isn't unrealistically fast.
The notion of true open mod is sexy, and I can see why people are attached to it. And in some places, like off-road, it makes sense. But in that style of racing, the amount of power you can put down is limited by available traction, so even though it's called mod, and you can run whatever motor you want, there's a factor at play that keeps speeds reasonable, and makes it a more attainable goal for people that race that discipline.
But on-road, especially on carpet is different. Not only are the cars faster than their off-road counterparts with the same motors, but there's usually enough available traction to put down as much power as today's technology will allow. And that, quite simply, has exceeded the ability of the people racing these cars today. Sure, there's a few guys that can handle it, but it takes more time and discipline than most racers are capable of, and there's really not much reward for it. The prestige in mod racing isn't there, the amount of work required is more than most people want to spend on their hobby, the cost is higher, the racing isn't as good, etc. In short, there's no incentive at all to run mod.
If there's really the desire to save mod racing in the US, it has to slow down. Otherwise, lets just put everybody in one of the existing spec classes like 13.5 and race together. Make 17.5 amateur, 13.5 "spec mod" and be done with it. If the IIC signups are any indication, the process is already well underway.
The notion of true open mod is sexy, and I can see why people are attached to it. And in some places, like off-road, it makes sense. But in that style of racing, the amount of power you can put down is limited by available traction, so even though it's called mod, and you can run whatever motor you want, there's a factor at play that keeps speeds reasonable, and makes it a more attainable goal for people that race that discipline.
But on-road, especially on carpet is different. Not only are the cars faster than their off-road counterparts with the same motors, but there's usually enough available traction to put down as much power as today's technology will allow. And that, quite simply, has exceeded the ability of the people racing these cars today. Sure, there's a few guys that can handle it, but it takes more time and discipline than most racers are capable of, and there's really not much reward for it. The prestige in mod racing isn't there, the amount of work required is more than most people want to spend on their hobby, the cost is higher, the racing isn't as good, etc. In short, there's no incentive at all to run mod.
If there's really the desire to save mod racing in the US, it has to slow down. Otherwise, lets just put everybody in one of the existing spec classes like 13.5 and race together. Make 17.5 amateur, 13.5 "spec mod" and be done with it. If the IIC signups are any indication, the process is already well underway.
