416 WE made in China
#91
Either way, it's not exactly "innovation", which is an argument people have made against this tourer..
Unless I've missed something these guys have still sources their own tooling/materials haven't they? Or did they use Tamiya's tooling too?
#92
right now i cannot tell the difference between a serpent, tamiya, xray, hpi, kyosho, etc... they all look the same... except for anodizing color.
if this copy was anodized red, i would think it was a kyosho, purple hpi, etc
if this copy was anodized red, i would think it was a kyosho, purple hpi, etc
#93
Tech Elite
iTrader: (138)
I'd like to raise a certain point here.
You're all talking about copyright but it is clear to me that you have no idea what copyright is. There is a distinct difference between copyright and a patent. Patent protects an idea an its application, copyright doesn't.
I haven't seen the car inperson and by no means am I saying that there is no infringement here, but what I DO know is that copyright applies to paper-supported means only (in our case this zould mean the drawings of all the parts). In some countries (like the UK) it does indeed protect the representation of the depicted object.
However, there only needs to be one difference in the drawing for the copyright not to apply. For example if one dimension on each part is different to the tamiya part then copyright doesn't apply and Tamiya cannot do anything about it.
Now this is certainly a knock off and I would strongly advise against buying the model, but as I said, there very well could be, technically speaking, no copyright infringement. Morally speaking though is another matter.
You're all talking about copyright but it is clear to me that you have no idea what copyright is. There is a distinct difference between copyright and a patent. Patent protects an idea an its application, copyright doesn't.
I haven't seen the car inperson and by no means am I saying that there is no infringement here, but what I DO know is that copyright applies to paper-supported means only (in our case this zould mean the drawings of all the parts). In some countries (like the UK) it does indeed protect the representation of the depicted object.
However, there only needs to be one difference in the drawing for the copyright not to apply. For example if one dimension on each part is different to the tamiya part then copyright doesn't apply and Tamiya cannot do anything about it.
Now this is certainly a knock off and I would strongly advise against buying the model, but as I said, there very well could be, technically speaking, no copyright infringement. Morally speaking though is another matter.
#95
Tech Regular
ok its a copy, but has anyone tried it and compared it to a real 416 car on a track?
does tamiya spares fit?
if so i`m buying one!
does tamiya spares fit?
if so i`m buying one!
#96
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
To Niznai,
Knowing what I know about Tamiya and their products I can tell you this is not a ploy, a strategy, or even a thought of Tamiya's to promote their car. I really and truly think what this company or person has done is a bunch of crap. Companies like Tamiya, HPI, Kyosho, pay money for research and development. Testing the car’s under race conditions, figuring out what works and what doesn’t. Then they spend money on creating the instructions manuals, packaging, promoting and advertising. Not to mention customer service for their products. All of this cost money that's built into the cost of the kit. Then poeple like this see something successful, buy it, reverse engineer it, and sit back and brag about what they’ve made. When in fact they’ve actually made nothing. You see it’s more than just stealing a cars design and making an imitation. It’s theft of multiple levels and in my opinion and it’s completely unethical.
Tamiya isn’t going to contract with countries like china because it’s like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics. They would send a design over for manufacturing and hours later it would be copied by two or three other companies and sold for a quarter of the price. Destroying branding that Tamiya has spent years building.
I get the point that you can only create a car in so many ways, most shaft drives look alike, most belt drives look alike, but they aren’t blatant copies. Associated doesn’t promote their car as a 416 we made in Lake Forest. I guess they have...morales.
What if you designed something, poured your heart and soul into it, paid a company to test it, paid for marketing and advertising, paid to send people to races to promote it…take this to the next level and say it was so successful you decided to employee a 100 people because your product is making money and your making a name for yourself. Then you see someone steal it right out from under your nose and sell it for less money. Now your sales dip, then possibly drop…What do you tell the people you have to let go? What do you tell the people that believed in your product?
I think the company doing this should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves and what they’ve done. If you want to be proud of something, create your own car and race it.
PS Hatebreed, you suck!
Vyg
Knowing what I know about Tamiya and their products I can tell you this is not a ploy, a strategy, or even a thought of Tamiya's to promote their car. I really and truly think what this company or person has done is a bunch of crap. Companies like Tamiya, HPI, Kyosho, pay money for research and development. Testing the car’s under race conditions, figuring out what works and what doesn’t. Then they spend money on creating the instructions manuals, packaging, promoting and advertising. Not to mention customer service for their products. All of this cost money that's built into the cost of the kit. Then poeple like this see something successful, buy it, reverse engineer it, and sit back and brag about what they’ve made. When in fact they’ve actually made nothing. You see it’s more than just stealing a cars design and making an imitation. It’s theft of multiple levels and in my opinion and it’s completely unethical.
Tamiya isn’t going to contract with countries like china because it’s like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics. They would send a design over for manufacturing and hours later it would be copied by two or three other companies and sold for a quarter of the price. Destroying branding that Tamiya has spent years building.
I get the point that you can only create a car in so many ways, most shaft drives look alike, most belt drives look alike, but they aren’t blatant copies. Associated doesn’t promote their car as a 416 we made in Lake Forest. I guess they have...morales.
What if you designed something, poured your heart and soul into it, paid a company to test it, paid for marketing and advertising, paid to send people to races to promote it…take this to the next level and say it was so successful you decided to employee a 100 people because your product is making money and your making a name for yourself. Then you see someone steal it right out from under your nose and sell it for less money. Now your sales dip, then possibly drop…What do you tell the people you have to let go? What do you tell the people that believed in your product?
I think the company doing this should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves and what they’ve done. If you want to be proud of something, create your own car and race it.
PS Hatebreed, you suck!
Vyg
#97
Tech Elite
iTrader: (138)
It is just as fast as my Cyclone, I let the owner of the track drive it (owner of a real 416) and its just as fast.
Some parts will need to be replaced with OEM. You will need to order these OEM tamiya parts, yes they all fit.
-Diff screw
-5mm x .5mm shim (for ball diff)
Parts I reccomend but are not neccesary:
C-hubs
Steel front CVD's
Overall this car is a steal at $200 shipped. It uses a Cyclone bumper system so if you want the carbon fiber plate order the HPI part. It comes to something like $225 with parts to make it race worthy. Well worth it in my opinion if your on a budget.
#98
Tech Elite
iTrader: (16)
I have one and I tested it on assphalt last weekend. I used a Tekin RS, Orion 17.5, Futaba S9451, and KO radio.
It is just as fast as my Cyclone, I let the owner of the track drive it (owner of a real 416) and its just as fast.
Some parts will need to be replaced with OEM. You will need to order these OEM tamiya parts, yes they all fit.
-Diff screw
-5mm x .5mm shim (for ball diff)
Parts I reccomend but are not neccesary:
C-hubs
Steel front CVD's
Overall this car is a steal at $200 shipped. It uses a Cyclone bumper system so if you want the carbon fiber plate order the HPI part. It comes to something like $225 with parts to make it race worthy. Well worth it in my opinion if your on a budget.
It is just as fast as my Cyclone, I let the owner of the track drive it (owner of a real 416) and its just as fast.
Some parts will need to be replaced with OEM. You will need to order these OEM tamiya parts, yes they all fit.
-Diff screw
-5mm x .5mm shim (for ball diff)
Parts I reccomend but are not neccesary:
C-hubs
Steel front CVD's
Overall this car is a steal at $200 shipped. It uses a Cyclone bumper system so if you want the carbon fiber plate order the HPI part. It comes to something like $225 with parts to make it race worthy. Well worth it in my opinion if your on a budget.
trf416 MRE ?? or trf417 ??
#100
Tamiya isn’t going to contract with countries like china because it’s like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics.
What if you designed something, poured your heart and soul into it, paid a company to test it, paid for marketing and advertising, paid to send people to races to promote it…take this to the next level and say it was so successful you decided to employee a 100 people because your product is making money and your making a name for yourself. Then you see someone steal it right out from under your nose and sell it for less money. Now your sales dip, then possibly drop…What do you tell the people you have to let go? What do you tell the people that believed in your product?
Vyg
About your views about the chinese people perhaps you should refrain from expressing opinions until you visit China or talk to some chinese people.
Tamiya and other companies might have put their soul into their products but I certainly put the money! And I think some of their prices are not justified by whatever they claim it cost them to produce. But that's a different matter.
And so should everybody else on the planet including primates and mamals who all learn by copying others!
Last edited by niznai; 05-08-2009 at 07:22 AM.
#101
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
as what i heard, tamiya will run a certain amount of limited production for their top TC kit then they will release a new/update model... might be TRF MRE... nothing special for tamiya to release a newer model in less than 1 year... buying the copycat 416we might be a good choice for spare chasis, upper deck, alloys... the rest, we can use original tamiya plastics, belts, gears...
#102
...Tamiya isn’t going to contract with countries like china because it’s like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics. They would send a design over for manufacturing and hours later it would be copied by two or three other companies and sold for a quarter of the price. Destroying branding that Tamiya has spent years building...
But I agree - stay away from these copies. Cheap and nasty to say the least...
#103
If you think Tamiya and others still manufacture in Japan, you have your head in the sand buddy... In fact I would be very surprised if any of the big players are not manufacturing in Asia or Eastern Europe. Also your stereotypical view on Chinese industry/manufacturing ethics are outdated. Yes there are many who do what you say, but there are just as many that don't.
But I agree - stay away from these copies. Cheap and nasty to say the least...
But I agree - stay away from these copies. Cheap and nasty to say the least...
#104
Tech Regular
iTrader: (18)
Lol what i dont get is what makes beginners feel the need to get a Tamiya TRF416 to start out with in the first place. There are plenty of good affordable touring cars out at the moment; Cyclones S, T2R, TA05s etc that are equally competitive but much better quality. I think those people rushing out to buy these clone cars believe that owning a "416" makes you a better driver, but it doesn't.
If i was to get a 416, it would be because i wanted a car that was engineered to be the best. That clone car has virtually no engineering quality in it. Its simply a copy of a good car, made out of crappier quality components.
If i was to get a 416, it would be because i wanted a car that was engineered to be the best. That clone car has virtually no engineering quality in it. Its simply a copy of a good car, made out of crappier quality components.
#105
Tech Adept
All of these threads invariably devolve into posts made by people who know nothing about modern China or Chinese production making claims against Chinese morals, ethics, people, and quality. It's all stereotype and you are showing nothing but your own lack of education when you make those claims.