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Old 01-14-2004, 05:53 AM   #7456
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ike
Hey guys, I'm getting back into the hobby and have decided on the TC3 Factory Team kit. Is there anything I will want to get right away for the car that doesn't come with the kit?

Thanks for any help!
Ike

Edit: Forgot to mention I will be running at Trackside where the TC Champs was just held, so it's indoors and seems to be a nice smooth track.

tires and a body. that car is just fine the way it is.
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Old 01-14-2004, 05:58 AM   #7457
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Default Re: Front Diff.

Quote:
Originally posted by Roger
Im getting ready to race modify on carpet this weekend. Which diff should I get. I noticed that there are 2 different front diffs made out of different material. One is made out of plastic and the other is steel. Then of course, there is the one-way which I already have. Should I run the plastic one or the steel (outdrives) diff. ? Thx guys.

run the irs aluminum one or the steel ae ones plastic diff heat up and become inconsistant.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:27 AM   #7458
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roger
Im getting ready to race modify on carpet this weekend. Which diff should I get. I noticed that there are 2 different front diffs made out of different material. One is made out of plastic and the other is steel. Then of course, there is the one-way which I already have. Should I run the plastic one or the steel (outdrives) diff. ? Thx guys.
I have been running a megatech delrin diff in the front and a plastic diff in the rear. I did, however, break one delrin diff this last weekend, so I put a steel one in the front.

I have a bunch of different sets of outdrives, like 6 delrin, 3 steel, 3 plastic, and 2 alluminum. I bought all these from my old track after it closed. When I run mod, which is usually just for practice because we mainly run 19t on carpet, I put a steel diff in the front for durability.

The plastic/delrin diffs always seem to run more smooth. I hate how the metal diffs get gritty after only a few runs. The steel diffs also weigh a TON.

The problem with the plastic diffs is that they flex bigtime. If you hit something, you run the risk of simply flexing the dogbone right out of the outdrive (amazingly, without breaking anything). This is the reason I started trying different front diffs.

When I go to the snowbirds next month, I am going to have an alluminum diff in the front (just for insurance) and either a plastic or delrin diff in the rear.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:41 AM   #7459
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For me, the rear tower on the front of the car gave STABLE steering. Running mod, or a one-way, the car was awesome off power or on brake in a corner. What JCROUSE said is right, the biggest change is shock position. The inside hole on the rear tower is close to the outside hole on the front tower. The reason steering feels faster or more responsive is because the shock is stood up with the rear tower on the front more than with the front tower, so it reacts faster to steering input. The rear tower also places the upper shock mount slightly lower (inside hole), and slightly further apart from center, when compared to the outside shock mounting hole on the front tower. This allows you to run the outer holes on the two hole front suspension arms with no droop/shock length issues. Again as JCROUSE said, you can gain similar handling attributes with spring and oil combinations in your shocks, but shock angle affects relative shock shaft speed through its range of actuation. The tighter the track OR rougher the surface you run on, the car will be better with the shocks stood up, the shaft speed is increased in the range of shock actuation. If car reaction needs to be fast (chicanes, tight track), the stood up shock will bound and rebound faster for you to get the car back to center for the next corner. If car reaction needs to be slow (high speed sweepers and flowing turns, big track) then laying down the shocks will make the car feel stable and consistent at high speeds. The reason you change spring and damping is due to the leverage effect the shock has over chassis roll. The further you move the shock out away from the centerline of the car, or the more you stand it up, the less it has to work to resist chassis roll (lighter oil and spring). The more you lay the shock down, or closer to the centerline of the car you move the shock, the harder the shock has to work to have the same effect (thicker oil and stiffer spring). NOW. You can stand the shocks up too much, causing the car to drive "square" and inconsistent, or lay them down too much and the car will drive "lazy" or inconsistent. Most of these extreme settings are NOT possible on most shock towers, but this also depends on track conditions and surface.

There is something to consider when it comes to shock height location. Other TC's are more adjustable in this department than the TC3. On some cars, the shock towers have multiple shock locations that place the shock the same distance from the centerline of the car, but lower or higher to the original position, respectively. This is there mostly for shock extension change (droop), but does affect chassis roll as well, just not as much as moving the shock in or out from the centerline of the car. The consideration is around shock shaft speed, and piston placement through the range of motion. If you place your shocks in a lower hole and dont actually use the added extension available (added droop for rougher track or smaller tires), the piston is placed higher in the shock body, closer to "bad" oil. A piston works its best (consistent) when its fully immersed in oil that is not full of air. Then of course there is the extreme where the shock piston/shaft bump the bladder at the top of the shock. This is like a full scale car riding on its bumpstops. If the front tower is on the front of the TC3, and you try to use the outer hole on both the arm and tower, you can have shock extension problems running foams, as the shock has to be fully extended to give you proper ride height. The hole variations with the rear shock tower up front help make this no problem, along with the previously mentioned benefits. OK. Now im going to shut up...

:::editors note:::

Basically, i like the rear tower on the front.

- Dave
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:11 AM   #7460
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awesome post dave...thank you
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:21 AM   #7461
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Dave,

Great explanation. Thanks for your help.

Ralph
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:54 AM   #7462
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DaveW,
man what a great post,, i have raced oval for several years and now just got a tc3 to try touring cars,, that post has answered alot of question and theories i had on the shock and how they work on the tc cars,,

i really like reading something i can learn from and that was one of them ,,

BIGDN
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:56 AM   #7463
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woah... thats a long post but a very good one. all i know about the rear shock tower in front is that when i started putting it there, i started winning , so i think it must be because we have a tight track.
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Old 01-14-2004, 12:28 PM   #7464
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DaveW: very interesting post, especially the stuff about where the piston is in relation to the 'bad oil' in the shock absorber. Food for thought!

Just one thing though - surely YOUR shocks dont have air in them?!!
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Old 01-14-2004, 02:36 PM   #7465
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No worries guys, we are ALL here for input to make us faster! Every post about this car and our experiences, good and bad, gives us the power to make decisions with our cars that CAN let us win.... assuming we have a clean qualifier!!

Horatio: You know, as much as i try to build a perfect shock, i have yet to build a better one than when i got Yokomo's bladder caps for the TC3. No muss, no fuss! ALL HAIL SPEEDTECH R/C!

Alot of guys on here that are newcomers have RTR cars that do NOT have bladders, and may not have even known they had oil in the shocks! LOL YEARS ago (no age jokes please...LOL) my first RC10 buggy had these cooool gold shocks... and were awesome, until i rebuilt them. (it was just tooo friggin awesome to be able to wrench on my r/c car...i had to do it... Radio Shack had NO answers for MY questions!) See, i had no extra oil for the shocks, so i went to the auto parts store and got some DOT 3 brake fluid! Surely THAT would work well in my shocks! Well, two weeks later, a new chassis and shock rebuild kit later... (you should have seen me open the box from Tower Hobbies, man i was happier than a kid at X-mas!) i had me some OFFICIAL AE shock oil! Turns out that brake fluid wasnt the hot setup... three cinderblocks and some plywood, and the 5 foot deep ditch out front of my house, didnt seem to help matters either! Much less have any idea what shocks with no air in them could do... which was MUCH less of a consideration back then. Things now have gotten so much more technical and involving, i WISH i had a site like this chock full of information to help me back then! Just last week, i gave a friend of mine in Ohio the web address, he is just as addicted to r/c as i, and has sit down to read page after page after page of these posts! Anyways, nothin but luck to you guys...

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Old 01-14-2004, 03:34 PM   #7466
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I have to say the Yok shock caps with the bladders have made rebuilds a lot easier, but the yokomo shocks caps from the MR4TC with the bleed screws worked pretty well for me too. For those with a limited budget, you may want to try those. They are a lot cheaper and don't require you to remove the volume compensators from the shock bodies.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:06 PM   #7467
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveW
For me, the rear tower on the front of the car gave STABLE steering. Running mod, or a one-way, the car was awesome off power or on brake in a corner. What JCROUSE said is right, the biggest change is shock position. The inside hole on the rear tower is close to the outside hole on the front tower. The reason steering feels faster or more responsive is because the shock is stood up with the rear tower on the front more than with the front tower, so it reacts faster to steering input. The rear tower also places the upper shock mount slightly lower (inside hole), and slightly further apart from center, when compared to the outside shock mounting hole on the front tower. This allows you to run the outer holes on the two hole front suspension arms with no droop/shock length issues. Again as JCROUSE said, you can gain similar handling attributes with spring and oil combinations in your shocks, but shock angle affects relative shock shaft speed through its range of actuation. The tighter the track OR rougher the surface you run on, the car will be better with the shocks stood up, the shaft speed is increased in the range of shock actuation. If car reaction needs to be fast (chicanes, tight track), the stood up shock will bound and rebound faster for you to get the car back to center for the next corner. If car reaction needs to be slow (high speed sweepers and flowing turns, big track) then laying down the shocks will make the car feel stable and consistent at high speeds. The reason you change spring and damping is due to the leverage effect the shock has over chassis roll. The further you move the shock out away from the centerline of the car, or the more you stand it up, the less it has to work to resist chassis roll (lighter oil and spring). The more you lay the shock down, or closer to the centerline of the car you move the shock, the harder the shock has to work to have the same effect (thicker oil and stiffer spring). NOW. You can stand the shocks up too much, causing the car to drive "square" and inconsistent, or lay them down too much and the car will drive "lazy" or inconsistent. Most of these extreme settings are NOT possible on most shock towers, but this also depends on track conditions and surface.

There is something to consider when it comes to shock height location. Other TC's are more adjustable in this department than the TC3. On some cars, the shock towers have multiple shock locations that place the shock the same distance from the centerline of the car, but lower or higher to the original position, respectively. This is there mostly for shock extension change (droop), but does affect chassis roll as well, just not as much as moving the shock in or out from the centerline of the car. The consideration is around shock shaft speed, and piston placement through the range of motion. If you place your shocks in a lower hole and dont actually use the added extension available (added droop for rougher track or smaller tires), the piston is placed higher in the shock body, closer to "bad" oil. A piston works its best (consistent) when its fully immersed in oil that is not full of air. Then of course there is the extreme where the shock piston/shaft bump the bladder at the top of the shock. This is like a full scale car riding on its bumpstops. If the front tower is on the front of the TC3, and you try to use the outer hole on both the arm and tower, you can have shock extension problems running foams, as the shock has to be fully extended to give you proper ride height. The hole variations with the rear shock tower up front help make this no problem, along with the previously mentioned benefits. OK. Now im going to shut up...

:::editors note:::

Basically, i like the rear tower on the front.

- Dave
Look at Mr. Know Itall !

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Old 01-15-2004, 05:10 AM   #7468
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DaveW:

Agreed - bladders make it very much easier to get a decent shock action with no air. Bleed screws on the old MR4 shocks work pretty well too.

Brake fluid used as shock oil?

NOW that must have been LONG time ago

AE Shocks were the shocks to own for many years - I knew lots of drivers fitting them to their Yoks & Cats etc

These days everyone is spoilt for choice and has information overload thanks to the internet.

I too have been in the sport for a long time - my first car was a tamiya sandscorcher (honest!!) but I have to say I have still learnt a huge amount over the past 6 months thanks to you guys and RCTech.
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Old 01-15-2004, 07:10 AM   #7469
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DOTMAN: I definitely agree, the bleeder screws work really well... as i used them for a long time too. They popped up on my first build of an MX-4... i copied the idea on all of my composite AE shock caps until just recently, when i got the bladder caps. The screws seem to like a slow bleeding process, if you push the shaft up/in fast, too much oil comes out. But it is easier to build consistent shocks with them, over the stock cap.

PROFICAR403: If only i could drive eh?? Did you ever get your carbon fiber sheet?? Im strugglin to find some 3mm sheet to make a center brace! How thick was yours? Man i need a hobbyshop here that stocks more than planes...

HORATIO: A Sandscorcher?? Man talk about flashback. Thats as bas as saying Marui Big Bear!! What was the Tamiya 4WD offroad car that was in R/C Car Action mag way back then that was alien green, if i remember correctly. I think it was called the Avante...? I remember looking at that magazine after doing homework and SWEARING i was gonna buy one after grass cutting season!! I used to DROOL over that thing!

And YES brake fluid! Man, guys were using suntan lotion on their oval car tires back then, so why not?! Ill try anything once... well, ALMOST anything....

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Old 01-15-2004, 07:25 AM   #7470
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My friend filled his shocks with WD40. After about 3-4 runs the shocks would be empty. Man...those were the days.!!!!
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