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Old 07-18-2003, 08:48 AM   #5551
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I see no reason for this 10 second spin obsession. It is a good thing to have a free driveline... but there is such a thing as excess. Efficiency is important in stock AND mod class... but having some kind of feel of the driveline while offpower can assist in smooth and consistent laptimes. In mod... if your driveline is so free that when you let off the throttle to make a corner you overshoot the apex without having to add excessive drag brake or push brake... what are you really achieving? Does not adding brake create a dead short across the commutator and burn the com? Does not a burnt com decrease efficiency and power? What do you think all of the black stuff between the com segments is from anyways?! In these times of 3300 GP cells and milli ohm resistance speedos... are we really struggling for every last drop of runtime?! This is one reason why so many people like a belt car. It can be very smooth to drive with weight transitions being easier to discern while cornering. Excessive power isnt as noticeable, or seemingly so hard to control in a belt car. A shaft car accelerates/decelerates VERY hard... and you have to have a smooth trigger finger to keep your car from breaking loose... or to keep it on the "edge". The best way i can describe it is leaving your full scale car in 2nd gear and trying to maintain a consistent driving line around a corner... if you hit the pedal hard the car lurches forward abruptly and will push (generally) away from the apex of the turn. In the same scenario, if you let off the pedal hard, the nose drops and the car will turn in (oversteer) to the apex of the corner abruptly. Engine braking will pull the car into the corner agressively. Same scenario... and you push the clutch in... you cannot let off the throttle to slow the car to maintain a tight apex... you will have to add brakes to slow the car. Shaft drive can be similar to leaving the clutch engaged... and belt drive can be like leaving the clutch disengaged. Of course... rotating mass plays alot in this as well, and makes an exception in these cases. When your driveline is so light that all you feel in your throttle is the weight of the armature spinning... it can be hard to drive that car, belt OR shaft. Now all this translates a little different to r/c cars... but hopefully can show you that the smoothest driveline isnt the way to the fastest laptimes. I have won many a race with locked-up bearings in my TC3...and usually do little maintenance to my cars unless i am going to a big race. I want it smooth... but not so free that a breeze will blow my car off of the pit table with no motor installed! My problem is the frequency with which i get to race... 6 packs through a car (included in that is the 3 qualifiers and a main) at an event does not a constant A-main contender make. Above all... practice is key...
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Old 07-18-2003, 08:58 AM   #5552
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveW
I see no reason for this 10 second spin obsession. It is a good thing to have a free driveline... but there is such a thing as excess....
- Dave
I completely agree. At the nats, I had to rebuild two new transmissions in practice. I trashed my rear transmission when I blew a bearing and melted the upper and lower transmission cases and ground bearing parts into the transmission gears. I had to build a new front transmission when I hit a dead car at the end of the straight and broke both front transmission gears. I valued practice time much more then a free spinning transmission. My drivetrain spins 5-6 seconds tops. It all comes down to setup.
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Old 07-18-2003, 11:49 AM   #5553
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DaveW and Mike Dunnigan,

I have a love hate relationship with the Tc3!!! It is by far the fastest car in stock/foam tire racing I have ever driven, but I prefer driving my Xray EVo2 anyday. I also recall an early interview with JOsh Cyrul where he said the Tc3 produces so much forward traction that it makes it hard to get the best handling out of it. But he knew when he harnessed that-he could see the car having an advantage over all other Sedans. As you know his Tc3 is like no other now.

But this brings me to my point, is it posible that with all the hogging out of my old tranny cases, I have made so much slop in the driveline that it could be affecting the way the car drives out or even into corners? I always feel like my Tc3 is inconsistent lap to lap and corner to corner-though it gets there fast as can be-regardless.

Basically I feel like I have to drive the Tc3 at my track to compete with the top 2 or 3 guys for Qualifying. But in the Mains, I am just as competitive if not more so with my Xray.

ON my latest FTTC3 which I am building now-I built the tranny cases free, but they have NO slop at all. I doubt theyd free spin even 5 seconds. I hope between that and building the suspension with untmost care-this Tc3 will be much more consistent feeling than my tired old one.
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Old 07-18-2003, 11:58 AM   #5554
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Quote:
Originally posted by pkranger63
I have done some searching but am not turning up much. Does anyone have any experince using these chassis on their TC3?
http://www.xtremercracing.com/TC3_Ca...iber_Parts.cfm

Thanks
Matt
That chassis kit is neat and all but the batteries slots are too far from the center of the car. The best mod I ever did to one of my cars was move the batteries more inward towards the center on my tc3. The car transitions quicker.

Last edited by webspinner; 07-18-2003 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 07-18-2003, 11:59 AM   #5555
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Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
DaveW and Mike Dunnigan,

I have a love hate relationship with the Tc3!!! It is by far the fastest car in stock/foam tire racing I have ever driven, but I prefer driving my Xray EVo2 anyday. I also recall an early interview with JOsh Cyrul where he said the Tc3 produces so much forward traction that it makes it hard to get the best handling out of it. But he knew when he harnessed that-he could see the car having an advantage over all other Sedans. As you know his Tc3 is like no other now.

But this brings me to my point, is it posible that with all the hogging out of my old tranny cases, I have made so much slop in the driveline that it could be affecting the way the car drives out or even into corners? I always feel like my Tc3 is inconsistent lap to lap and corner to corner-though it gets there fast as can be-regardless.

Basically I feel like I have to drive the Tc3 at my track to compete with the top 2 or 3 guys for Qualifying. But in the Mains, I am just as competitive if not more so with my Xray.

ON my latest FTTC3 which I am building now-I built the tranny cases free, but they have NO slop at all. I doubt theyd free spin even 5 seconds. I hope between that and building the suspension with untmost care-this Tc3 will be much more consistent feeling than my tired old one.
I think the biggest factor for consistent handling of the sedan is the suspension and not the drivetrain. Any amount of slop is multiplied by the time you add up the pivot points from the chassis to the wheels. For example the there is slop in the inner and outter arm hinge pins, inner and outter camber link mounts and wheel axle to bearing - It just adds up. Realistically, most racers don't change suspension parts until they break. To ensure consistent handling before any big race, I replace all suspension pieces and sometimes cvd axles and bones. There is a reason why new cars always seem to handle better.
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Old 07-18-2003, 12:11 PM   #5556
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Mike D-yes-I agree no the slop issues. My car was best when I was running all new Dumas arms on the car earlier this year. I also have many thin motor shims all over the place shimming out play on the suspension arms when I run the stock AE arms. My hingepins look more like armatures.

I also think that the Tc3 is a great car for someone with more experience (like you, Baker, Pavidis) and who drives with exceptional throttle control and smooth steering inputs. A belt car has that built in cushy feeling on acceleration and deceleration that helps hacks like me to drive more consistent. IN other words you can just flat hammer the throttle on a belt car out of a corner and lift really late going in as well.

But I have noticed every time I go back to the Tc3-I am a better driver than the last time and I enjoy driving it more and more. I suppose-short of Xray buildiing a good shaft drive car-I'll eventually just stick with the Tc3 and quit driving other cars.
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Old 07-18-2003, 12:22 PM   #5557
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I've been reading this thread since I bought my TC3 about a year ago. I had to stay home for a while because of an injury so I had a lot of time on my hands. So I started making modifications on my TC3 to pass the time. I even made a how to website about the mods I did.

Looking back at all of this, I have to ask, does the TC3 need that much modifications to be fast... Of all the mods listed in this thread since the beginning, I find that the only mod which is really worth the time and effort is the battery to the center one. The rear shock tower in front mod is easy to do and won't take much of your time. The NTC3 steering rack mod is nice for its maintenance free operation but it ads ackerman.

The freeing up the drivetrain thing takes a good amount of time and effort that would be better spent on the track practicing in MHO.

I haven't tried to install Losi suspension components so I can't really comment on that. So what I think about all the TC3 mods comes down to this: The battery mod is worth the time and effort. For all the rest, it's up to anyone to ask themselves, should I spend my time at home doing mods or should I get to the track and practice, practice, practice.

Another $0.02 on my part
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Old 07-18-2003, 12:24 PM   #5558
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Just practice...
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Old 07-18-2003, 02:46 PM   #5559
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Ray: I would have to agree with you and Mike on the slop issue. A new car always seems to handle best (on high bite tracks)... or at least a tight one that is shimmed properly. Sometimes, on an unprepped parkinglot track, a little slop can be good to desensitize the car... but who runs asphalt anymore?! My car spins for 5 or 6 seconds as well... and all i did was relieve the rough areas in the tranny case where the bearings rest so they werent pinched with the case screwed together. But the amount i removed was nominal... so i can imagine the difference is negligible. When i actually get to race on carpet... i spend more time doing shocks and suspension settings than anything else from pack to pack. Those changes seem far more effective than one micron of graphite removed for the diffs. The higher the grip available... the better the car has to be (attention to setup details) to give you the response to drive fast. You guys near tracks should be so damn thankful... i live in the slowest area for r/c... unless it has wings/blades or wears a Traxxas badge. My driving practice has been relegated to 3 hour drives to other states to race... or to the PS2 for some fast laps on GT3. Maybe i should buy a helicopter and try adding a Trinity shim kit to it to see if it makes it handle better.....



NOT....


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Old 07-18-2003, 02:54 PM   #5560
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Hey guys! Scotty would like to hold the Oct. leg of the triple crown at Trackside. If any one knows who to contact, let Scotty know. Call him at Trackside- 262-783-4699. Thanks!
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Old 07-18-2003, 03:21 PM   #5561
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I have 2 TC3's...one has extensive mods and the other is basically stock (has the battery mod only). The modified one handles great. I've had great results with it, but then I pick up the stock TC3 and turn laps just as good or better with it. I've spent a lot of money on both cars trying new third party parts and chassis' and known seemed to make the car faster. To add insult, I built a racer kit for my friend and his car handled as well as mine first time out. It took me six laps to shake him. I feel now that the car really only needs the battery mod. All the after market parts are just to make the car pretty.
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Old 07-18-2003, 07:23 PM   #5562
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Quote:
Originally posted by moshmike
Hey guys! Scotty would like to hold the Oct. leg of the triple crown at Trackside. If any one knows who to contact, let Scotty know. Call him at Trackside- 262-783-4699. Thanks!
moshmike-if you could forward this info I am posting to Scotty. This is an excerpt from my mass e-mailing message for our carpet track racers here in Maple Heights, Ohio. I keep them informed on events every week or so with our track.

Also, we have spoken with (and know) the current triple crown commitee extensively so I have very good info for Scotty. I'll try and call him Monday!!! Please let him know:

QUOTE:So it is looking very likely that the Gate in Maple Heights, OHIO will be
going to be making the switch to odorless come fall, and may infact be a
one-make traction compound (like Beaver, PA track). So IF YOUVE GOT
PARAGON-USE IT UP!!! Or save it for out of town races that still allow
Paragon.

And last-we are in the final stages of planning our Big Three Day Halloween
Trophy Race at the Gate scheduled for late October!! I dont wnt to let too
much out of the bag, but this race is gonna be HUGE!!! More details to come
VERY soon. We are lining up great sponsors, nice trophies and plaques, a
Race Director and full time Announcer!!!! We are also planning on tryng to
get the big magazines to cover the event since this will be one of the first
Big races on carpet of the year. Hopefully well make it an annual event
much like Oktoberfast, Snowbirds and the Champs. There will be BRP 1/18th
scale, Stock and Mod Sedan, Stock and Mod 12th scale!!

Remember-we have a race on Tuesday night, July 22nd!! Hope you all can make
it again. Lets shoot for 42 entries this time!!! Not that I dont think 41
entires on a Tuesday night in summer isnt AWESOME!!!!

Ray
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Old 07-19-2003, 08:32 AM   #5563
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Default TC3 Questions

Hi guys Please try to answer the following questions.

a) Can you lower the gear ratio say from 2.5 to 1.9 is there are hop up to do this.

b) How can i make my TC3 drive train work more efficient.

c) Any sites people know with TC3 info.

I raced my new TC3 Factory last night in Johnson 540 ( that is the only class i run ) it went very well, does the car get quicker after it all runs in and is there any secrets that can help me.

Regards Brad
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Old 07-20-2003, 12:16 AM   #5564
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brad - the car will get faster over time, yes (to a certain extent of course), as the bearings and other parts wear you will find the car will get faster, and have better handling characteristics. you shouldn't really need to do anything to the car, although the battery location mod will help handling a lot, and blueprinting the drivetrain can free it up a bit.

ray - how much is one of your custom chassis? thanks
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Old 07-20-2003, 12:59 AM   #5565
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Default BLUE PRINTING THE DRIVE TRAIN

Thankyou, But hwat is meant by blue printing the drive train ??????????????????????????????/


regards Brad
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