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Old 07-13-2002, 12:27 PM   #2116
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....and we are ALL Americans.

....this coming from a transplanted MONTANAN....out here in Northern CA......


.....take me home...to the place...where I was born....START YOUR ENGINES.......

....well....sorry.....NO major races held in Montana....just the occasional 1/4 mile of fun on some frontage road somewhere in Big Sky Country!
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Old 07-14-2002, 02:29 AM   #2117
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you're missing the point, everyone that lives in the States is an American and even though everyone who lives in Scandinavia is "Noridic", Norweigians are not Swedish and Swedish are not Finnish, they don't even speak the same languages. I have to say it is an insult to generalize in this way. It's like saying all people who speak spanish are Mexican. my 2 cents.
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Old 07-14-2002, 04:37 AM   #2118
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um....whatever...back to the topic at hand.

The roll center is changed when using the R shock tower in the front. Why? The pickup points for the camber rods are raised......so...the front roll center is raised.
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Old 07-14-2002, 05:28 AM   #2119
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Quote:
Originally posted by acloco
um....whatever...back to the topic at hand.

The roll center is changed when using the R shock tower in the front. Why? The pickup points for the camber rods are raised......so...the front roll center is raised.
I think you are wrong. the camber link positions are exactly the same on the front and rear shoch tower. If you shim the tower, then the pick up points are raised, but that actually lowers the roll center.
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Old 07-14-2002, 11:09 AM   #2120
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I would like to take this opportunity to appologize to all those of the Nodic region, that may have been offended by my generalization of your region........
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Old 07-14-2002, 11:28 AM   #2121
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No probs dragon slayer, and I wasn't offended. I just wanted to clarify that Solberg is from Norway.
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Old 07-14-2002, 11:36 AM   #2122
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Airwide...after i posted the original comment on Solberg...i went to the WRC site to see if it said anything about his R/C involvement.....didnt see anything...didnt figure i would....yes, he is form Norway.

So, i guess we can move on now....lolol
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:30 PM   #2123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Airwide


I think you are wrong. the camber link positions are exactly the same on the front and rear shoch tower. If you shim the tower, then the pick up points are raised, but that actually lowers the roll center.

Well....no....the roll center is raised.

Does everybody know what the term "roll center" actually means? Kind of neat, actually. Draw a line from your right inner camber link location to the left lower inner hinge pin....repeat the same for the left inner camber link location to the right lower inner hinge pin......the center of the X is the "roll center. Now...put the Rear shock tower on the front....raise the shock tower as described previously.......now.....draw the new lines to find the roll center. The crossing point of the X is now HIGHER.....so....the roll center is now higher.

...looks something like this.... x vs X
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:41 PM   #2124
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acloco,

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think you've got the mechanics of roll center correct. Here's a link to a decent explanation:

http://home.tiscali.be/heremanss/c2/index.htm

(scroll down to section 2.3)

Raising the inner hingpin locations raises the roll center, raising the inner camber link positions lowers the roll center, all else being unchanged.

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Old 07-14-2002, 09:20 PM   #2125
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I do not have a scanner, otherwise I would draw it out on graph paper.

Use the picture that is in 2.3 of the link......raise the upper camber link position by 1 or 2 mm.....redraw the lines....and see for yourself.

If you raise the inner camber link position, the blue & red lines passing through the outer & inner camber link positions intersect higher in the center and further out on the intersection point....hence...a higher roll center.

Last edited by acloco; 07-14-2002 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 07-14-2002, 09:48 PM   #2126
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Tony P,

wanted to give a little race report....I put your Bumpy TC3 setup on my car and went out to a new track...while it was a light turnout due to some light showers, I still won the A-Main, which is a huge improvement on the car from barely squeeking into the A to winning an A-Main...

Thanks much....car still needs a bit more on-power steering, but for now I am happy were I am at...

Later!
TigeRyan
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Old 07-15-2002, 07:40 AM   #2127
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acloco,
Take another at the roll center diagram, Trips speaks the truth.
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:19 PM   #2128
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Quote:
Originally posted by acloco
If you raise the inner camber link position, the blue & red lines passing through the outer & inner camber link positions intersect higher in the center and further out on the intersection point....hence...a higher roll center.
The intersection of the blue and red lines isn't the roll center. If you raise the inner camber link, you'll move the intersection of the blue and red lines further outboard, thus when you look at the GREEN lines from the centers of the contact patches to the intersections of the blue and red lines, the intersection of the green lines gets LOWER as the intersections of the blue and red lines moves outboard, thus LOWERING the roll center.

Here's a link to an interactive roll center calculator:

http://www.bennett-racing.com/modem/...ollcenter.html

Plug in your numbers, and get a roll center height, then make no other change but to lower the height of the inner camber link and you'll see the roll center move up.

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Old 07-15-2002, 01:46 PM   #2129
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ARGH! Crap...come on guys.

By using the rear shock tower on the front....and SPACING it up...you RAISE THE DAMN INNER CAMBER LINK LOCATION!!!!! The same amount that you raised the rear shock tower when moving it to the front.

Again.....draw it out on graph paper.


Take 10 minutes and draw it out......move the inner camber link location UP ....because you spaced the shock tower UP.
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:51 PM   #2130
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just agree to disagree and let's move on
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