R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-29-2009, 12:33 PM   #1036
Tech Fanatic
 
fat500's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Boca Raton, florida
Posts: 975
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

Take off the rear shock or run it with 10 wt oil and 3 hole piston and no spring.
use the silver springs up front and the soft tbar in the rear. level ride ht. or 1mm lower in the ft. for more steering ,loose on the pivot ball . keeping the rear loose keeps the rear plantedbut too loose and it will fishtail on hard turns. Finding the proper balance is critical on this chassis.Add a slight ammount of slip to the rear diff, use 3.5 mm off set uprights in front for a little more turn in. (i went back to stock).I run a silver can mtr. and my car is dialed. easier to drive than my f103 once you figure it out. I find the set up on this chassis is different than the 103. If you go from 103 to a 104 forget how you would adjust the 103 and tinker with the 104 more. once you get it set-up to you ; you will be faster with the 104.
I can push this car harder than my 103 and be more confident with it.
I think the rubber tires coming out soon will make the 104 chassis more consistant. I also turned my steering expo up to 35% and this gave me the turn in I was looking for at the end of my fastest straight. I have been playing with the car for a few days and this seems to be on the spot for me.
My track is high grip .
Goodluck.
fat500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 12:54 PM   #1037
Tech Adept
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 214
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

If rules about the width come into play, then 104 parts on a 103 will fix that. (F103.5). So long as the wheelbase, long vs short, does not come into play in the rules.

I hope Tamiya does not only allow F104s in thier series. This would be a step back in getting F1 into mainstream.

I say, bring on the rubber tires and say no to foam... More realistic that way...

Brushless would be good, but then, which turn, manufacturer, etc to run? then begins the which is better, etc for people to figure out much like on these forums. Unless its a Tamiya brushless...
RonF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 01:06 PM   #1038
Tech Elite
 
reenmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,539
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr0311 View Post
just because i just joined rc tech doeasnt mean i dont have any experience. i have been racing and driving rc cars since 1993. i see some of the videos on youtube where a 104 does beat a 103, but it depends on the track. the track i ran on is a tight technical track. one can clearly see the 103 is faster in a button hook turn than a 104. you dont need a timer to see it. a fast sweeping track im sure will level the field. at my track lots of people have both anv 103s and 104s and so do i. we all have tested both cars so far, and on this track the 103 gets it.
I didn't intend to come across as questioning your experience or intelligence and I apologize if I did. Your point sounds much more cogent when restated above.
__________________
Pete Waydo
2010 Big Fat Turkey Race Mini Cooper AAA Main Champion
*** currently in stasis ***
reenmachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 04:03 PM   #1039
Tech Fanatic
 
414MPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 987
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F N CUDA View Post
Ultimate F1 race a couple days ago had pros drivin 103s and 104s.

The 103s won but the 104s were on their arses. That's with only 4 months to figure out the 104.

Not much difference in lap times between em.

I think the finish order would have been close to the same no matter which car each driver used. I think the top drivers, except for 1, all wheeled the F103.
Can't forget to mention Joel "Magic" Johnson drove a Kyosho right into the hunt at the front of the pack! Ya, dude's got game!

Proof that the 104 has much potential.
Craig,

What race were you at? The So-Cal ULTIMATE F-1 challenge that I attended had an F-104 win the expert Foam division. He spanked the F-1 sportsman foam division winner based on overall time. I think he also had the fastest single lap time, a 15.1xx second lap. He was running a shock with a spring too. Damn professional R/C drivers... lol, Good job Ryan.

This just supports what folks like RobK have been saying here, the F-104 is in the steep developmental curve and climbing.
__________________
Marty (TAMIYA 414M's, F-1's and Vintage Trans-Am! Is there anything else?)
** Red Dot Motors** , thanks doc....
and I guess the TA-05 IFS-R is pretty good too.....
414MPH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 05:17 PM   #1040
Tech Addict
 
Metla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtypecanare View Post
F103-15 years of development
F104-4 months
You have it around the wrong way, Development is done by the manufacturer, By their Research and development department no less, and the fact that Tamiya had 15 years to design a the successor to the 03 and managed to release a less capable car is beyond comprehension.

In this day and age the car should have been dialled right out of the box with only minor tweaking required, and the fact that 4 months later people still aren't matching the pace of the old car....The mind boggles.

Look at what people are doing to this thing, removing the shock spring and cutting up the T-bar to get her to handle, The mind continues to boggle.

So far the 04 is a failed car, No one would have touched it with a barge pole if it were a competition spec TC or buggy with such drastic design flaws and I have never yet comes across the mindset of lets give this months and months to see if we can figure her out.
Metla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 05:18 PM   #1041
Tech Master
 
madjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,760
Trader Rating: 20 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to madjack
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 414MPH View Post
Craig,

What race were you at? The So-Cal ULTIMATE F-1 challenge that I attended had an F-104 win the expert Foam division. He spanked the F-1 sportsman foam division winner based on overall time. I think he also had the fastest single lap time, a 15.1xx second lap. He was running a shock with a spring too. Damn professional R/C drivers... lol, Good job Ryan.

This just supports what folks like RobK have been saying here, the F-104 is in the steep developmental curve and climbing.
I thought I heard Ryan was running DJ's 103?
madjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 05:39 PM   #1042
Tech Initiate
 
Arthur Burns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 43
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I am toying with the idea of brushless for my F104. Does anyone have a good suggestion (17.5T, 21.5T) on brushless motor for the F104 (or F103 for that matter - realize there is probably more experience with brushless on the 103 chassis). Also want to know what gearing would be a good place to start. I race at the Tamiya track in A/V.

Thanks!
__________________
X-Ray T2 '06 - Novak GTX/Spektrum 3100
Tamiya F103 RM - Novak XBR/Spektrum 300 (currently with Protoform Mulsanne body)
Tamiya F103R - Tekin FX Pro/Spektrum 3000
Tamiya F104 Pro - Tekin Fx/Spektrum 3500
Axial SCX10 - HPI Bronco Body - Tekin FX-R/Tekin 45T / Ubiquitous Slash - Stock
Arthur Burns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 05:52 PM   #1043
Tech Fanatic
 
fat500's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Boca Raton, florida
Posts: 975
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

I purchased a f103 when they first came out many years ago. lotus, and it handled terrible. It was so loose EVERYONE complained how hard it was to drive and it was next to impossible to get a class going. (now it is dialed....Took a # of years though.) I raced it in the first tamiya race that came to south florida and the second in the late 80's. I remember hearing the same complaints back then .
Should Tamiya have gone back and redesigned the whole car to have rear drive and fully indep. suspension ...Yes... did they? ...no...The f201 was a steer in the right direction but a 4wd f1...comon...please.... so they went back to what worked...F 103 based with a more scale wheelbase/wheels/tires and a few tweaks. Give this car some time. We will all be happy.
Imo... Tamiya should have done a more complex redesign closer to the f201 but RWD .we got what we got Have fun with it
Tamiya Power
@ Metla...I agree with most of what you write. The car given to us today (F104) should be a better car out of the box given the technology that is avail. and the fact that they have years with the 103 to build on. I think tamiya went for scale looks with this chassis. I do believe that my 104 is better than my 103 but I did have to play with it a lot to get it that way. OOB the 104 was not a happy camper. On the other hand my tb03 is pretty much dialed OOB so go figure.

Last edited by fat500; 09-29-2009 at 06:01 PM. Reason: more
fat500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 06:09 PM   #1044
Tech Master
 
mugler's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,139
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F N CUDA View Post
Can't forget to mention Joel "Magic" Johnson drove a Kyosho right into the hunt at the front of the pack! Ya, dude's got game!
What Kyosho car was Joel "Magic" Johnson driving?
mugler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 06:48 PM   #1045
Tech Elite
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,283
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metla View Post
You have it around the wrong way, Development is done by the manufacturer, By their Research and development department no less, and the fact that Tamiya had 15 years to design a the successor to the 03 and managed to release a less capable car is beyond comprehension.

In this day and age the car should have been dialled right out of the box with only minor tweaking required, and the fact that 4 months later people still aren't matching the pace of the old car....The mind boggles.

Look at what people are doing to this thing, removing the shock spring and cutting up the T-bar to get her to handle, The mind continues to boggle.

So far the 04 is a failed car, No one would have touched it with a barge pole if it were a competition spec TC or buggy with such drastic design flaws and I have never yet comes across the mindset of lets give this months and months to see if we can figure her out.
When we talk about development, we are talking setup development, knowing what to throw at the car in changing conditions. I cant attest to alot of the stuff that is being discussed here because my car has yet to turn a wheel at the track. When it does, the first outing will be on carpet, and based on what I am hearing here, I know some of the things I am going to try. One of them is running the B compound foams all the way around. It might sound funny, but I am thinking that the car needs some slide dialed into it for carpet so it doesnt get bogged down in the corners. Will report as soon as the test happens
__________________
I'll hit the brakes he'll go right by
http://f1rclab.com
http://f1rclab.mybigcommerce.com
BP SHADOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 07:27 PM   #1046
Tech Champion
 
F N CUDA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mission Viejo, So Cal
Posts: 5,453
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjack View Post
I thought I heard Ryan was running DJ's 103?
That's what I heard Fred say during the race, that Ryan Lutz owed Mr. Junn $25 for the rental on the "old ride".
Not sure what body, I thought it looked like an F104 on the track.

Also that Magic had dusted off his old Kyosho rocket.

That first pro A main was incredible, anyone's race.

Gotta be some videos to be had.

ANYONE???????

By the way, Marty, congrats on the win.

Maybe I shoulda kicked for the Red Dot I talked to Doc about but Scrooged on. Sorry Doc but wasn't sure my car would even handle the extra power.
Boy was I wrong, thing was like a slot car all weekend!

Marty, you woulda kept me behind you regardless, you were on your game and I was lucky enough to have the monkey car dialed enough to make me look like a podium contender all day.
__________________
Craig Hammon

Last edited by F N CUDA; 09-29-2009 at 07:39 PM.
F N CUDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 07:44 PM   #1047
Tech Master
 
mugler's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,139
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Holy moly, Kyosho had it goin on back in the day! they really need to jump into F1 again, if they do it will really jolt the F1 scene.

For the electric version go to minute 1:27:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utjh4r7WYXE
mugler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 08:51 PM   #1048
Tech Addict
 
Metla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
When we talk about development, we are talking setup development,
I realise the point that was being made, I was pointing out how incredibly weak that point is.
Metla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 09:54 PM   #1049
Tech Elite
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,283
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metla View Post
I realise the point that was being made, I was pointing out how incredibly weak that point is.
Dude, every new car has things that dont work about it, it the fun of buying a new car and sorting it out
Some cars come out of the box better than others , some need more work.
I look forward to trying to sort out the 104, it makes it fun and challenging.
__________________
I'll hit the brakes he'll go right by
http://f1rclab.com
http://f1rclab.mybigcommerce.com
BP SHADOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 11:55 PM   #1050
PDR
Tech Master
 
PDR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,825
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Burns View Post
I am toying with the idea of brushless for my F104. Does anyone have a good suggestion (17.5T, 21.5T) on brushless motor for the F104 (or F103 for that matter - realize there is probably more experience with brushless on the 103 chassis). Also want to know what gearing would be a good place to start. I race at the Tamiya track in A/V.

Thanks!
Worth checking what other people might be running there, but at least two F104's with 17.5 brushless systems are running at my local track. I have a Novak GTB and a Losi Xcelorin and it runs very nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by veecee View Post
Personally I prefer the scale looks of the F104 and my car seems to perform well when I take it to the track. It's actually a lot of fun to drive.
I agree - I'm having a ball with mine and it's a very different experience to my touring car in just about every way imaginable. There's no real formal competition here in Oz (for F1), although there's been a bit of a revival at my own club, F103's of many vintages along with a growing band of F104's are mixing it with F201's at both our nightime and daytime race meets. It's more of a celebration of the hobby and homage to a great form of motorsport. I've even built a AMG CLK safety car with flashing lights. Finals starting positions are determined by fastest single lap in the qualifiers and we have a rolling start in the final after two laps of being led by the safety car.

An F201 with a 13T sensorless brushless system in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing is not going to be catchable with my F104, but that's not really the point. He's having a ball, and so am I

This is also on an outdoor asphalt track with varying grip and conditions. After the dust storm we had come through last week, I struggled to get through *any* corner without spinning. Luckily, we're taking some high pressure water hoses to it this weekend

Not too many carpet tracks in near vicinity, and one has just opened up 15mins from my place. The next nearest is 3 hours drive. I'm keen to see how it goes there.

I'm also thinking it would be a good celebration to get as many F1 RC guys together for a state/national meet and that might stimulate some newcomers. As a newcomer to organised RC, not sure of the best way to kick start this.

Phil.
Attached Thumbnails
Tamiya F104 Pro!-dsc03856.jpg  
__________________
Looking for chassis | Multiple Kids
2011 Slowest Winner - 21.5 Muchmore Masters & NSW State Titles Demo Class
https://www.facebook.com/phatdadracing/
Making an A Main at a Scotty Ernst event. Awesome. Scotty calling you first in A1. Priceless
PDR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tekin RS ESC sensored Jeff Cuffs Electric On-Road 23359 10-02-2016 05:57 AM
Tamiya F104, HPI F10 and POPULARITY bxpitbull Electric On-Road 28 07-22-2011 07:13 AM
HPI F10 vs Tamiya F104 Pro daygoVR6 Electric On-Road 38 12-03-2010 02:19 PM
FS: Tamiya F103RM and F104 Pro! SerpentCT4S R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 42 09-12-2009 05:59 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:39 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net