R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-07-2010, 01:25 PM   #3946
Tech Champion
 
MantisWorx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,846
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arahawak View Post
any teaser or preview what we are getting??
www.mantisworx.com !!!
MantisWorx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 02:21 PM   #3947
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 15
Default

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but I'm considering the Tamiya F104/Exotek coversion (for my own wacky reasons). I'm not that familiar with the F104 front suspension, though I like the way it looks. Currently I have a 3R F109 (great car), and I like the ease with which the front camber and caster can be adjusted. Are both adjustable on the F104? If so, how difficult is it? Looking at pics of the car it doesn't appear that either are adjustable, but that seems hard to believe. Any help out there?
Bob Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 02:33 PM   #3948
Tech Champion
 
MantisWorx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,846
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

you cannot adust the castor at all and the camber adjustment is also limited to 1* BUT when you go to that setting it throws the castor(decreases it) off because it only moves the front mounting point of the arms. some have said that shimming the rear ball up can help but for the life of me i cant seem to get that to work on Autocad!! this is why i designed the Mantisworx camber kit, it adjust both setting and you can go with -1* or -2* and still have full castor adjustments without effecting the camber!
MantisWorx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 02:34 PM   #3949
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,168
Default

There are aftermarket parts that allow you to adjust camber to pre-set camber amounts. But they are not as adjustable as the stock F1-09 front suspension.

The Tamiya adjusment block allows you to adjust camber in .5 degree increments up to 2.5 degrees.

The 3Racing adjusment block allows you to adjust camber in 1 degree increments up to 3 degrees.

While the Tamiya part has a finer adjustment the 3Racing one has an easier adjustment since you don't have to take apart as much of the suspension to do it.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #3950
Tech Champion
 
MantisWorx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,846
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

this is basically what you get with the Tamiya way of adjusting camber, the more camber you add the more your castor is decreased!
Attached Thumbnails
Tamiya F104 Pro!-tamcamber.jpg  
MantisWorx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 02:56 PM   #3951
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,474
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
you cannot adust the castor at all and the camber adjustment is also limited to 1* BUT when you go to that setting it throws the castor(decreases it) off because it only moves the front mounting point of the arms. some have said that shimming the rear ball up can help but for the life of me i cant seem to get that to work on Autocad!! this is why i designed the Mantisworx camber kit, it adjust both setting and you can go with -1* or -2* and still have full castor adjustments without effecting the camber!
You don't need auto cad. It's also not really increasing caster, it is causing a more radical dynamic caster effect. Raising the rear link causes the upper arm to move forward under compression, which actually takes away a bit of caster from that side. It does give added grip mid corner.

Add shims to the rear ball and then work the suspension. No need for computer models when you have a 3d model in your hand
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #3952
Tech Champion
 
abailey21's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,176
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

What kind of ride height are you running on carpet rubber?

The way the front end is set up (with ride tires and rims) I'm running 5.5mm in the front.

Also would you match in the rear, or run .5mm higher like i always ran in my TC
__________________
K.C.C.O.
abailey21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 04:45 PM   #3953
Tech Champion
 
MantisWorx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,846
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
You don't need auto cad. It's also not really increasing caster, it is causing a more radical dynamic caster effect. Raising the rear link causes the upper arm to move forward under compression, which actually takes away a bit of caster from that side. It does give added grip mid corner.

Add shims to the rear ball and then work the suspension. No need for computer models when you have a 3d model in your hand
not saying that you are wrong, i just cant wrap my head around it! it seems to me that if you shim the rear (which you cant shim very much or it will eventually bind up) when the suspension is compressed it will make the arm go more towards the front of the car which is what you are trying to get away from right? maybe shimming the front is the way to go???? Either way my kit does away with all of that and you get straight castor/camber adjustments
MantisWorx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 06:13 PM   #3954
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,168
Default

Shimming the rear pivot will cause caster to decrease as the suspension compresses. Shimming the front would do the opposite...so I would think to negate the caster effects of moving the front pivot in you would need to shim the front pivot up.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 06:47 PM   #3955
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,168
Default

Not sure if it would or not...Just commenting on the physical movement of the suspension.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 08:28 PM   #3956
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,474
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

What I am talking about is the suspension design of the Associated, CRC, and most other 1/12 front ends.



The car loses caster as the suspension compresses. Since caster jacks weight back to the opposite corner, getting some of that weight back under compression (ex. mid corner) gives a bit more grip.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 08:38 PM   #3957
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,168
Default

And technically even having the upper arm level will decrease the caster as suspension compresses. The only way to have the caster remain static when only 1 of the 2 suspension arms moves is to have the arm perpendicular to the caster so that the arm's movement is in-line with the caster.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 08:51 PM   #3958
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,474
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

The 104 does have a small amount of dynamic caster built in. I just try to increase it if there is enough rear traction for the car. I noticed the car would push mid corner quite a bit if the rear end was stable in most cases.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 12:08 AM   #3959
Tech Elite
 
Arahawak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: A.D. 2030
Posts: 3,438
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
You don't need auto cad. It's also not really increasing caster, it is causing a more radical dynamic caster effect. Raising the rear link causes the upper arm to move forward under compression, which actually takes away a bit of caster from that side. It does give added grip mid corner.

Add shims to the rear ball and then work the suspension. No need for computer models when you have a 3d model in your hand
Erm I am not good with words description.. Do you have a picture as an example??
__________________
Support Bacteria - its the only culture some people have!
Arahawak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 03:50 AM   #3960
Tech Champion
 
gashuffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: RcVille
Posts: 5,230
Trader Rating: 48 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arahawak View Post
Erm I am not good with words description.. Do you have a picture as an example??
Adding shims under the ball connector where the arms snap into on the topdeck will increase static castor. This will raise the rear of the arm by how many mm shims you use.

Please excuse my dirty car

__________________
T-Sal

Last edited by gashuffer; 12-08-2010 at 04:06 AM.
gashuffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tekin RS ESC sensored Jeff Cuffs Electric On-Road 23359 10-02-2016 05:57 AM
Tamiya F104, HPI F10 and POPULARITY bxpitbull Electric On-Road 28 07-22-2011 07:13 AM
HPI F10 vs Tamiya F104 Pro daygoVR6 Electric On-Road 38 12-03-2010 02:19 PM
FS: Tamiya F103RM and F104 Pro! SerpentCT4S R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 42 09-12-2009 05:59 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:27 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net