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Old 10-26-2010, 09:05 PM   #3571
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Originally Posted by Marco926 View Post
Shimizu released 2 new rubber tires for F104 : F3-S and R3-S
does anyone know what compounds are they as before F3/R3 are hard compounds.
S = Soft?
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:53 AM   #3572
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S = Soft?
maybe......but very strange that F3/R3 are hard compounds and now change to soft.......

and the price is nearly half cheaper than before.........
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:58 AM   #3573
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First run with the car tonight, couldn't get the rear end to stop coming around the front (on power and off - worse on power) on indoor pavement. Tamiya tires, soft in the rear and hard in front. High traction t-bar. I'm wide open to suggestions!
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:30 AM   #3574
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What servo is recommended for the F104 Pro?
I am thinking of running a 9.5T Hobbywing brushless in it... Will that be too much motor?
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:48 AM   #3575
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This thing is hard to get the rear hooked up no matter what you do.

The extra traction T bar has to be in perfect condition, it will not last long but when it's new it's the best you can get. It'll get stress cracks and be very inconsistent.

You can try keeping all of the rear suspension as light and as loose as possible without letting anything flop around.

Center screw for the T bar just barely seated.
Soft O ring. I like the blue MIP silicone ones.
Lite oil and lite spring set loosely.
AE diff lube on the bottom damper plate only and the spring set lightly enough to just barely let the rear pod max out side to side, no resistance from motor wires being pinched by body etc.

Fresh diff parts set just tight enough to never slip, at all. If it slips it dies.
Move the front end spacers (large and med., small I keep under) to the top of the spindles to get that front end of the chassis up, motorboat style.
Rear end low.

Gotta try to make it push, (good luck with that but you know what I mean).

Now it will probably push into the corners but still want to be a bit loose coming out of the corners.
To get mine to turn in now, I have crazy toe out which helps to turn into and push out of the corner. I won't tell you how much toe out I run cuz I hate to be ridiculed but it is extreme.
Oh yeh, I like the offset spindles too, also seems to help it to push when exiting the corners on power.
That's about as good as I have been able to get my 104 non pro to work on the rubber tires (soft rear and med or hard fronts) and a hi bite surface.

Remember that the pro is stiff upper and lower graphite and the non pro is more flexible fiberglass which is an advantage for rear traction.

Some have been cutting the front half of the upper deck off to allow more chassis flex, some run the screws loose on the upper deck.
Also consider the fact that you built the car around the battery (remember?) and that has also made your chassis super rigid since the battery is now like a part of the chassis, like a boxed frame.
Still others have mounted O rings under the upper deck to relieve some of the pressure between the deck and battery.

Personally, I don't have that much fun with the F104 on rubber and when it comes to foams, well, I have an F103 and we all know how well those go.

I do hear good things about Shimizu tires but wasn't blown away when I tried them.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:28 AM   #3576
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Thanks for the tips Craig...I'll see if I can implement some of that. Honestly, I bought the car mainly because I like F1 so much and just thought it'd be cool to have an R/C version, I'm not sure I can get it to where I'd be comfortable trying to race it. I've still got so far to go with my on-road driving, this might be too challenging yet. But I do want to try and get it set up to where I can drive laps smoothly and under control, without the car spinning out and whatnot.
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:00 AM   #3577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F N CUDA View Post
This thing is hard to get the rear hooked up no matter what you do.

The extra traction T bar has to be in perfect condition, it will not last long but when it's new it's the best you can get. It'll get stress cracks and be very inconsistent.

You can try keeping all of the rear suspension as light and as loose as possible without letting anything flop around.

Center screw for the T bar just barely seated.
Soft O ring. I like the blue MIP silicone ones.
Lite oil and lite spring set loosely.
AE diff lube on the bottom damper plate only and the spring set lightly enough to just barely let the rear pod max out side to side, no resistance from motor wires being pinched by body etc.

Fresh diff parts set just tight enough to never slip, at all. If it slips it dies.
Move the front end spacers (large and med., small I keep under) to the top of the spindles to get that front end of the chassis up, motorboat style.
Rear end low.

Gotta try to make it push, (good luck with that but you know what I mean).

Now it will probably push into the corners but still want to be a bit loose coming out of the corners.
To get mine to turn in now, I have crazy toe out which helps to turn into and push out of the corner. I won't tell you how much toe out I run cuz I hate to be ridiculed but it is extreme.
Oh yeh, I like the offset spindles too, also seems to help it to push when exiting the corners on power.
That's about as good as I have been able to get my 104 non pro to work on the rubber tires (soft rear and med or hard fronts) and a hi bite surface.

Remember that the pro is stiff upper and lower graphite and the non pro is more flexible fiberglass which is an advantage for rear traction.

Some have been cutting the front half of the upper deck off to allow more chassis flex, some run the screws loose on the upper deck.
Also consider the fact that you built the car around the battery (remember?) and that has also made your chassis super rigid since the battery is now like a part of the chassis, like a boxed frame.
Still others have mounted O rings under the upper deck to relieve some of the pressure between the deck and battery.

Personally, I don't have that much fun with the F104 on rubber and when it comes to foams, well, I have an F103 and we all know how well those go.

I do hear good things about Shimizu tires but wasn't blown away when I tried them.
good advice~~~~~
how about front springs ???
and does 1-piece t-bar better than normal???
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:38 AM   #3578
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Don't forget about radio settings...

D/R - just enough to do a circle in the smallest lane of the track
Steering Exponential - Use negative steering exp to tone down steering sensitivity on center
Throttle Exponential - Use negative throttle exp to not spin the tires too early out of the corner
Brake EPA - Turn down the brake hi point so when braking the brake action is not set to 100%. Have to play with this setting.

Also use some tire traction additive. Start with only the rear tires and then add to the front if you need more steering. Additive is TCS legal.

Another thing to adjust is driving style. If you're driving it like a touring car it's not gonna work unless the car is completely hooked up like on carpet. As you begin to turn you should be off the throttle and let the car roll through the turn, then roll back on the throttle about 1/2 to 2/3rd's through the turn.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:16 AM   #3579
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is there any one body someone will pick anyday over another
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:24 AM   #3580
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^^^^^ i dont believe the bodies perform any differently, just get teh one that has the look you are looking for.

kdeselms its all about balance , the first thing to do is turn your steering EPA down to about 60%, run the most camber you can get and raise the rollcenter by putting spacers under the ball ends that the upper suspension arms mount to. after that scribe a line with a silver or white paint marker across the tire and drive it on the track for a few minutes, you will notice that the line will wear away from the inside towards the outside, about 2mm past where the line has gone away put a bead of super glue (try small dots at first until you find the perfect location) . now you will find that you may have to turn your EPA back up but once you get it right you will have a pretty good balance and the car will be driveable. another tip is to use ceramic diff balls, they will allow you to let the diff slip a little without destroying your diff, the balls are 3mm but you can also use 1/8"
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:22 AM   #3581
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Originally Posted by kdeselms View Post
First run with the car tonight, couldn't get the rear end to stop coming around the front (on power and off - worse on power) on indoor pavement. Tamiya tires, soft in the rear and hard in front. High traction t-bar. I'm wide open to suggestions!
possible your tires weren't broken in yet. did you sauce the rear? for me sauce the rear and no sauce on the front. my rear doesn't want to come around at all. i do run on a prepared track though. how is your track?
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:53 AM   #3582
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hay inzane, when will your sight be back up?
The Swedish F1 site and the Inzane web shop are both open/public. My international web shop is closed down for the moment - I haven't decided yet if I will have it reopened again but this time focusing strictly on F1RC.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:57 AM   #3583
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I did forget to mention radio settings and all the above advise I do already use also.
This could be the biggest part of your setup, like cheat codes on video games.

I am not a fan of turning down the steering epa though, I prefer to use extreme expo but leave the epa at 100% because of all the 180 degree turns we end up seeing.
This way I can move the wheel and not have the car twitching around but when the wheel is turned full lock I can do tight diameter circles, again only at full lock of the wheel.

WCRC is super hi traction and you will bounce off the walls.
Some days stickier than others.
The 104's natural handling, in my opinion is push into the corner and loose coming out, even on high bite tracks.

I have always used extreme expo on the throttle for loose on power conditions. Opposite of course for cars on hi bite surfaces where there is no loose rear end such as F103 on foam.
The terms "ham fisted" and "whiskey finger" come to mind when I think about having throttle control.
The hardest thing to do is control throttle when the car feels loose and having a trigger that acts like a light switch makes it almost impossible to be smooth.
My setting for this demands that I have the trigger crushed to the handle before I get full throttle.
Lots of offroad for me but lately the tracks are pretty high bite so I get away with more linear throttle and steering settings.

Tires.
Clean em every run, Simple Green or ? for the rubber and motor spray, lighter fluid or ? for the foams.

Sauce em the same way the fast guys do, find out the track's secret, time allowed to soak etc.
I almost never sauce the fronts on the 104 (rubber) and only about 1/4 of the fronts (foam) on the 103 on carpet only.

Again, not to bag on this car but it is not my favorite car to run although it is just about my favorite to look at.
When it is dialed and working well, Tamiya Nationals, it is predictable at best and you can get it around without too much drama but it still does not feel like something you can push hard and really set track records with.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:24 AM   #3584
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most of the problems center around the T plate, get rid of that and the car is a joy to drive! the pivot ball/tri shock/damper tube etc etc completely changes the car. my car is very balanced right now on foams and rubbers and i dont have to drive it carefully and can be pretty agressive. on rubbers it takes a few laps to get the fronts warmed up but in general it tends to push first oversteer second which makes it driveable.
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:05 PM   #3585
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Well I'm in no danger of setting any records, regardless of what car I run Craig Honestly, although I am enjoying the challenge of learning on-road, I still much prefer off-road and I have a much greater understanding of why it's more popular, now. It's far, far simpler and more forgiving, when it comes to setup. I rarely have to change much on my SC10 beyond suspension settings and tires. It takes a long time to get an on-road car working right and then you really have to hold its hand to keep it set up right. I want to read more feedback about the Exotek conversion for this car, I really like the one I got for my TA05 V2.
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